Previous in Forum: Meaning of Re-Transmission Output   Next in Forum: Floating Voltage
Close
Close
Close
6 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3

Pressure Transmitter for Turbine Back Pressure

04/12/2015 3:13 AM

A pressure transmitter measuring turbine back pressure with a range of -1 to 0.5 bar(g)

Process conditions

Max design pressure 0.49 bar(g)

Max design temperature 120oC

Fluid name Steam

Fluid state Vapor

Should this transmitter be mounted above the tapping point or below the tapping point.

And if below, can the impulse line be installed without condensate pot

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2599
Good Answers: 77
#1

Re: Pressure transmitter for turbine back pressure

04/12/2015 7:44 AM

Either, provided that you make due allowance for any condensate in the line between the tapping point and your transmitter.

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 669
Good Answers: 176
#2

Re: Pressure transmitter for turbine back pressure

04/12/2015 12:23 PM

120 Deg C approaches the limit of temperature rating for the pressure sensor bodies. The spec sheet on my desk shows one model with a 'rated' limit of 110 Deg C with the operative limit at 125 Deg C.

I read that as continuous duty at 110 Deg C; with momentary excursions to 125 Deg C, with some accuracy error above the rated limit. I'd isolate the transmitter with condensate, regardless of the spec'd temp. It's heat that kills electronics.

I don't know whether your 'backpressure' is a gauge pressure measurement or a DP measurement referencing some other tapped point. If gauge, I'd probably use a DP transmitter and leave the low side open to atmosphere unless you get a gauge pressure transmitter that doesn't need 50:1 or 100:1 turndown (becxause it has a 35 bar native span) in order to get down to the 0.5bar range you need. The typical smart DP transmitter will do your 0.5bar range with only a 2:1 or 2.5:1 turndown from its native full scale.

In practice, steam service DP flow transmitters are almost always mounted below the tap(s) to allow condensate to isolate the transmitter from the steam temperatures.

But gauge pressure transmitters are sometimes mounted on a pig tail siphon above the pipe tap.

The 'above or below' argument is opinion, like what your preferred car brand is. If you use a siphon though, you have to make sure it's got water in it.

If mounted below, then the impulse tube liquid level has be maintained at a constant height; if it varies, it's a direct measurment error. Either an upper elevation Tee or condensate pot should be at or higher in elevation than the tap, so that any condensate between the Tee and the pipe drains back into the port/tap. You only want condensate in the vertical leg down to the transmitter.

Some installations use condensate pots, others don't. They're easy to fill with water. If there's no condensate pot then a Tee at the high point (with one plugged port facing up) is needed for filling the impulse tube with water.

Some installations put a bend in the impulse line running down to the transmitter to allow the bend to absorb the expansion and contraction with comes with heat and cooling. A bend does not affect 'calibration'; only elevation and the head pressure of the water column in the impulse tube affects the measurement/calibration.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#3

Re: Pressure Transmitter for Turbine Back Pressure

04/12/2015 11:25 PM

When measuring gas,always locate transmitter above pipe,to prevent condensation from entering transmitter.

When measuring steam,always locate transmitter below measurement point to prevent hot steam from contacting sensor element.

When locating below is not possible,install a pig tail fitting and bleed the air from the pigtail to prevent erroneous readings.

(Paraphrased from Combustion Engineering manual.)

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#4

Re: Pressure Transmitter for Turbine Back Pressure

04/13/2015 12:36 PM

In that this transmitter will be located away from the turbine exhaust (and condenser) by the length of any connecting tubing, there should not be a heat issue, unless the XMTR is installed too near a steam pipe, main steam valve, etc. It is usual for the XMTR to be located above the tapping point with a slope back to allow any condensate to drain away.

If you place the XMTR below the tapping point, then you should make allowance for a full water column, otherwise this will introduce an error to the reading based on added pressure of the column.

Usually such XMTR's come with manual suggesting good installation and bad installation practices. Follow the manual in lieu of other.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 669
Good Answers: 176
#5

Re: Pressure Transmitter for Turbine Back Pressure

04/14/2015 3:03 PM

I opened the thread to read HiTekRednek's post and realized I'd missed a critical element - this is vacuum range: -1bar.

There's a problem using condensate legs to isolate the transmitter at vacuum pressures because the lowered boiling point of condensate at vacuum pressures could allow the condensate water to flash off, as the table below shows.

The situation depends on the condensate temperature and the applied vacuum.

The condensate level has to remain constant to ensure an accurate pressure measurement. A condensate level in the impulse tubing/condensate pot that changes is reflected immediately as a pressure measurement error.

The 0.5 bar steam temperature falls within the operating limit of the example spec I posted above. If the pressure transmitter you pick has a similar rating, I'd suggest installing it on a length (depends on accessibility, ambient conditions, radiant heat affecting the location) of slightly inclined impulse tubing slanting up from the tap to the transmitter so that condensate drains back into the tap by gravity.

Attempting to maintain a condensate level otherwise, could prove to be high maintenance.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
2
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Pressure Transmitter for Turbine Back Pressure

04/14/2015 4:03 PM

that is precisely how we do it around here, and I presume some young Ghengus figured this out somewhere else a long time ago, because he don't work here no more.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Register to Reply 6 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Crabtree (1); HiTekRedNek (1); Iris (2); James Stewart (2)

Previous in Forum: Meaning of Re-Transmission Output   Next in Forum: Floating Voltage

Advertisement