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Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 7:16 AM

Hi all, the UK has a 4 wire low voltage distribution network. I am a student here and am interested to learn how many other countries use this system?

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#1

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 7:47 AM

All of them.

You could have looked that up in Wikipedia.

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#2

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 8:33 AM

Is it also the case that the majority of dwellings (houses or/and flats) are connected to one phase conductor and one neutral conductor only in every country?

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#3
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 9:15 AM

Outside of North America (which, by the way, includes Mexico), yes. In NA, no.

Also unique to us, not all distribution is 4 wire, we use Delta systems in many areas.

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#4
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 10:28 AM

Generally, yes.

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#21
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 4:14 PM

US tends to have 2 phases and a neutral. (120V to N & 120V to N - we like our voltage low on lights and receptacles so we don't get fried)

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#5

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 10:32 AM

In mainland europe, are two phases sometimes supplied? One for lighting and the other for appliances? I heard a rumour!

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#6
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 10:36 AM

Generally no. It is more balanced to supply all three.

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#7

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 11:01 AM

Here is an interesting link to some data on this question.

Click Here

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#8
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 4:15 PM

Nice link

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#9
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/16/2015 11:20 PM

Many years ago, when I was just a browser here, one of the older members sent me a link to electricity around the world. It seems to be the same information as the link you posted. Thanks for it, I lost the old link when I retired.

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 7:46 AM

Check with locals is my advice. That list is incomplete.

The publisher of the list is a made in US trade promotion gov org. It seems to be guidelines for US manufacturers trying to target foreign markets. I guess the info is as accurate as the prospective market target's importance.

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#10

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 4:45 AM

If its any interest or help:-

Germany puts 3 phases at 50Hz plus a neutral, at a nominal 240 VAC Phase to Neutral in each house. I believe Phase to Phase is 380VAC, though its years since I last needed to measure it!!

In each house there is a ground connection to what you might call a tested earth pit, though as I have never actually done that myself (my house was already installed), I have only seen the connection (heavy duty, thick aluminium wire) down the side of the houses and going several meters underground - at least!! It has to be checked by the local supplier for a correct installation. I believe it goes to a big metal plate underground....

This earth is connected to all metal piping, heating systems, bathroom, kitchen fittings etc., and is linked to the incoming neutral in the first mains supply box in each house.

The neutral, plus (one of the ) phase(s) and earth are connected, separately, to each and every wall socket and the like via 3 wire cabling in all modern housing.

Sadly, as far as I am aware, its still NOT a requirement to have ELCBs fitted to each phase, as far as I am aware. Though they cost little in comparison to an accident.....

Also, its easy to have full 3 phase mains sockets with a 5 pin connection, I have one in my cellar and one in my garage, to supply heavy equipment occasionally.

That consists of the 3 phases, a neutral and an earth. Though most 3 phase equipment does not need the neutral for anything, but if some serious amounts of 240VAC single phase are ever needed, its easy to rig up safely some distance away using a flexible 5 core cable......

In some older houses (years ago mine as well), they only run/ran two wires to each wall socket, a phase and a combined neutral/earth. This was connected both to one phase pin and the earth/Neutral connection, via a small ink in each socket to the frame of the socket.

A very unsafe method to my mind.

Also, I believe I am correct in saying, not possible to use any sort of ELCBs I believe, though I never tried till the whole house was rewired to full earth, neutral and a phase.

This was a hangover from a previous system (still today on some industrial sites I believe) where the phase to phase voltage was only 220VAC, in a system not dissimilar to what the USA has today as far as I can see. But all "normal" devices were still 220VAC, I did not ever see anyone using 110VAC in a house for anything ever,

The only thing I really dislike about the plugs and sockets here are that an uncovered socket can allow small children's fingers to touch phase.

Also, phase and neutral are not "set" or "Polarised" as in say the fantastic UK house ring main system plugs and sockets (Invented in 1945 I believe!!).

The plugs also miss having an individual fuse and the sockets miss having an on/off switch to isolate the device plugged in from the mains voltage as the UK standard system has.

I think thats about it, but if I can answer any questions for you, just ask.

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#11
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 5:05 AM

Thank you Andy, that is a great answer and is exactly what I am trying to find out! Germany therefore is a country that provides homes with access to three phases as standard, although there exists a legacy of homes that have installed access to a single phase only. Could you estimate the proportion of German homes have access to only a single phase and how many to three phases?

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#17
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 12:02 PM

Sorry, no idea.

I have never ever seen a single phase house here. All have had 3 phase.....

My house is 107 years old and has 3 phase power at 240VAC Phase to Neutral., though it was originally 3 phase 220VAC phase to phase many years ago....more than that I have no idea....

I do live in what was called the "American Sector" for many years. I don't know if that changed anything or not!!

A search on the Internet did not bring up a single reference to single phase houses in Germany.....

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#23
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 4:42 PM

Again andy, exactly what I wanted to know, thank u so much for that. I am amazed at how difficult this information is to come by, I have not found a single source that provides it so far!

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#14
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 9:54 AM

GA from me Andy. Just a correction, it's 230 V / 400 V nowadays. It used to be 220 / 380, before being harmonised at 230 (because of some guys who had 240 V).

In Brazil, you will get 1, 2 or 3 phases supplied depending of the load on your contract. 1-phase supply is cheaper.

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#12

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 5:09 AM

I am also interested in what the situation is in other countries?
The data provided in the table that "North of 60" provided is great, but it does not indicate what is installed to homes and small businesses as the modern day standard by distribution network operators. I am very interested in this information and would welcome any pointers to references where it may be detailed.....

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#15
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 9:59 AM

It's either single- or three-phase, as detailed above, except north America, where it can be split-phase 220v instead. You've already had this stuff above.

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#16
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 10:16 AM

Hi Crabtree, maybe I wasn't too clear, in the UK you can get single or three phase supplies. However, take a new domestic housing estate as than example, it would be fitted with single phase cables to homes by default and the customer pays for a new cable if they want a three phase connection.

My interest is in the following:

What are the current default working practices in other countries?

(For instance, I suspect that in Germany and Denmark three phase cables would be installed by default)

What were the legacy work practices if they have changed recently?

Essentially I want understand (roughly) the proportion of homes in countries that have three live phases connected and the proportion that only have one?

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#18

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 1:02 PM

It seems the curious OP is in fact looking for someone to do his Statistical Homework assignment for him

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#19
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 1:33 PM

Oh, you have studied statistics, why are you here? i thought this was a serious engineering forum for engineers...... analyse this this Ms Contemptuous:

15648476514658456145684653148564513486152356465315648753145645132451352435251485654153214685314532153452153645123561335631351255321332

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#20
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 2:46 PM

True serious Engineers do their own research too. But don't feel alone, your not the first student to come here looking for someone to do their homework for them

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#22
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 4:37 PM

u clearly don't know the answer, why bother posting?

Also, maybe try googling key words like "research" before u use them in future.

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#24
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/17/2015 5:45 PM

Welcome to the site. It is refreshing to have your sharpness and enthusiasm. For way too long the old crowd has been just too pleasant and polite.

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#26
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Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/20/2015 2:47 AM

I suspect that no reader here knows the answer to your questions. This thread is suffering from a phenomenon known in military circles as "mission creep".

You're on your own, Mildred.

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#25

Re: Countries with 4 Wire Low Voltage Distribution Networks?

04/18/2015 9:50 PM

Oz is the same as you describe the UK. Single phase supplied by default, 3 Ph supplied by request. As per the link supplied 240/415V Standard receptacles, cables, etc are prescribed in AS 3000.

Jim

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