Previous in Forum: Motor Control Textbook or Long Article?   Next in Forum: AutoCAD at Work?
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 26

Generators & NGR Switching

04/26/2015 11:05 AM

Dear Experts,

can you explain for below mentioned matter,

We have three Generators connected in parallel. Only Generator#1 NGR is switched "ON" & other Generator#2 & 3 NGR are OFF.

If, Ground fault occur at Generator#2 or 3 whose neutral is switched "OFF" what happen. How the Ground fault flow through the NGR & How it will be detected that its belong to Generator 2 or 3 ??

Thanks.

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Generators & NGR Switching.
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#1

Re: Generators & NGR Switching.

04/26/2015 11:26 AM

A ground fault most likely occurs elsewhere in the whole system than can be pinned down to generator 1, 2, or 3.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2008
Location: CHENNAI, TAMIL NADU, INDIA.
Posts: 1851
Good Answers: 65
#2

Re: Generators & NGR Switching.

04/26/2015 11:58 AM

Dear Mr.Progressive,

First point is the Neutral for 2nd and 3rd Generator SHOULD NOT BE SWITCHED-OFF.

Second point is Earth Fault can occur from any corner, say Motor, MCC, Circuit Breaker etc.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Generators & NGR Switching.

04/26/2015 9:04 PM

I guess that you would rather have the available fault current from all three machines contributing to the available short circuit current rather than just one of them. Please see this thread for an explanation of why the practice is to only have one neutral connected regardless of the number of generators in parallel. It's a common misconception that all neutrals must be connected to their respective NGR at all times.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#3

Re: Generators & NGR Switching

04/26/2015 7:44 PM

Nothing happens except that you get an alarm for an earth fault somewhere in the system. If this alarm is ignored and the cause is never corrected then the instant a second earth fault occurs large fault currents will flow and hopefully the protective relaying will isolate fault location, which will be easily evident from the sparks and smoke emanating from it. Never ignore an alarm!

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 26
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Generators & NGR Switching

04/27/2015 2:06 AM

Ram Consult:

You have well explained the first part of my question & its cleared but the second part still confusing/not cleared, that is.

If fault/Over current happened on Generator# 1 or 2 while their Isolator to NGR are OFF/Open then, how the fault current for G1 OR G2 will pass through the NGR ??

Thanks

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eastern Arizona mountains on Route 666 about a mile from God's country
Posts: 1676
Good Answers: 122
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Generators & NGR Switching

04/27/2015 10:39 AM

Because of the parallel generator connection, all three generators are connected to the same neutral conductor therefore the current flowing through the neutral is a sum of all neutral current returning to all three generators windings.

The active NGR is monitoring the neutral and will sense the difference between the normal neutral current and the ground fault current which does not return to the generators.

The sensing and protective tripping will occur regardless of where the ground fault is physically located in the system resulting in isolation of all three generators from the grid.

Individual Generator winding protection such as instantaneous, differential, and time over current relaying is not affected by the active neutral NGR location and will still function normally.

Please understand that ground fault current does not return to the generators via the neutral conductor which is the basis of NGR operation.

I hope this helps.

__________________
They said; "Brain size?" I heard; "Train size?" so I said: "I'll take a small one, thank you."
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 26
#9
In reply to #6

Re: Generators & NGR Switching

04/30/2015 7:42 AM

SHOCKHISCAN,

Thanks for your explanation.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Generators & NGR Switching

04/27/2015 11:06 AM

It won't, and that's why there will be no appreciable short circuit current contribution from those ungrounded machines. It's also the reason why Earth Faults should be alarmed, not tripped.

Depending upon the exact location of the fault you could have some appreciable arcing and subsequent damage though, due to the current flow due to the capacitive coupling between the windings and the iron, that's why you should also have a differential zone across the generator leads for a tripping function.

That's the meaning of "Protection in Depth", but the protective relaying philosophy is dependent upon the importance of the asset being protected and its influence on the overall process/plant operations. This is not a "one size fits all" proposition so your exact criteria may be different..

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Generators & NGR Switching

04/28/2015 10:49 PM

At the outset let us first be clear whether we are discussing LT Generators ( 3Ph 4 Wire ) OR HT Generators ( 3Ph 3 Wire ).
In case of 3 Ph 4 wire all the neutrals are connected to the Neutral bus and NIS of one of the generators is switched on. When there is an Earth Fault all the generators will contribute to the fault. The Fault current will flow back to the generators thro' the NIS that is closed. The Fault current contributed by the set, whose NIS is closed, will directly return to that generator and of the remaining will flow back to the respective generators via the Neutral Bus ( if one draws the circuit one will be clear ).
In case of HT sets ( 3Ph 3 Wire ) similar practice of closing only one NIS is followed to prevent circulation of 3rd Harmonic currents. In this case Fault ( we are discussing only Earth Fault ) will be contributed by only that set whose NIS is closed. The remaining do not contribute to the fault as they will not have a return path/closed circuit.Once that is isolated thro' its own Earth Fault protection the remaining will continue to run and the Danger, unless isolated, is Phase to ground Voltage will raise to Phase to Phase Voltage, which may damage the Insulation of sets and the Switchgear. This is one of the reasons why the Power Cables used are of UE type.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Register to Reply 9 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bhaskaviind (1); dhayanandhan (1); Progressive (2); RAMConsult (3); SHOCKHISCAN (1); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: Motor Control Textbook or Long Article?   Next in Forum: AutoCAD at Work?

Advertisement