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A Question About Lighting Design in Accordance With EN 12464-1

05/21/2015 11:47 AM

I have been carrying out lighting design calculations with DiaLUX in accordance with EN 12464-1, but I have been facing a specific problem over and over again that sometimes when I try to figure out the best luminaire and its configuration to get the right illumination level and uniformity of a specified area to meet the recommendations of EN 12464-1, I have to increase the number of luminaires to be used to get the right uniformity level specified in the standard, which results in a higher illumination level like 50%-100% percent more than required, and that results in higher installation and operation costs... and if I try to calculate the right number of luminaires to meet the necessary illumination level, the uniformity does not meet that of the standard. And, if I am dealing with an area with suspended or a special ceiling, then I do not have a lot of choices to decide which luminaire to use either.

If you design lighting systems as well, do you have any advice for me on this one? Thanks in advance.

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#1

Re: A question about Lighting Design in accordance with EN 12464-1

05/21/2015 12:29 PM

I haven't performed lighting calculations in a very long time. From your description it sounds like you are using the wrong number somewhere in your calculations. Likely candidates are using the on axis luminosity incorrectly, mirror instead of diffused reflector numbers, source spectrum, viewer/lamp orientation. Then there are the real oddball possibilities of the collection of optical illusion effects the eye plays, unexpected reflected light polarizations and who knows what.

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#2

Re: A question about Lighting Design in accordance with EN 12464-1

05/21/2015 12:29 PM

I'm an optics engineer and I've been involved with various types of light sources and lighting over the years, though not with the software or standards you're dealing with. I do have a few comments, though I don't know if they'll help.

There are so many variables involved in lighting that it's almost as much an art as it is a science. The luminance, uniformity, and spectral output of the luminaire itself can be extremely different between different lamps. The reflectivity of the lamp surround, the reflectivity spectral response of the wall surface can vary greatly from one installation to the next. The size and shape of the rooms vary (needless to say) which affects the resulting brightness.

All of these things (and more) complicate the process of designing lighting.

Many years ago I developed a rule of thumb, which I found later that others use, too. The effective brightness of the walls affects the net illuminance on a surface by (roughly) the 4th power of the surface reflectivity. So for example, comparing a room with white walls with a net reflectivity of 95% vs a room with white walls having a 90% net reflectivity, the 95% white paint will yield a net brightness difference of (0.95/0.90)4 = 1.24, or 24% brighter (not 5% or 6% brighter like you might think.)

I don't know if this helps at all. I'd need more info about a specific application to be able to offer any (more) help.

There is a lot of trial and error involved, and at some point you need to realize that calculations are a guide - a starting point - and that practical experience counts as much as does proficiency with the software.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: A question about Lighting Design in accordance with EN 12464-1

05/21/2015 3:56 PM

Unlike electronic circuit modelling software lighting design using modern lighting software is very simple and works well because lighting design is more tolerant of errors and it is very clear if you have done something wrong. And it is a bit of an art form with trial and error but the more you know the fewer options you need to try.

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Re: A question about Lighting Design in accordance with EN 12464-1

05/22/2015 11:14 AM

That's why lighting design firms get paid so much money because they understand the art of the design and not just the science. There is no substitute for experience.

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#3

Re: A Question About Lighting Design in Accordance With EN 12464-1

05/21/2015 3:49 PM

As a fellow DIALux user your options are -

- Alter the light fitting wattage, reflector, diffuser, etc until you get the right pattern and light level required.

- Consider alternative luminare technologies like LED (watching your light colour of course)

- Look at other offerings from other light suppliers, DIALux-compatable photometric data is commonly available of the supplier websites or if asked for.

- Standards recommendations are recommendations, use common sense and talk with the customer if necessary. Sometimes you cannot get everything to match the standard AND be in budget or match the site construction limitations and so you have to compromise on uniformity or light pattern, this is common practice.

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#5

Re: A Question About Lighting Design in Accordance With EN 12464-1

05/22/2015 1:23 AM

Well in my experience it's always better to have too much light than not enough....that being said I have to agree with what's been said so far that the task of getting uniform light is not an easy task, and almost always involves compromise...This improves with more experience and knowledge of lighting types diffuser types reflector types etc etc...in short like everything else it takes time and effort and a wide knowledge of what's available to work with....which changes all the time....

http://www.dial.de/DIAL/fileadmin/download/dialux/wissen/DIALux_evo-_New_calculation_method.pdf

http://en.wiki.dialux.com/index.php/Calculation_objects

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#7

Re: A Question About Lighting Design in Accordance With EN 12464-1

05/22/2015 4:09 PM

Like some of the other replies, Better a bit too much than not enough.

Is this a warehouse or a workshop?

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#8
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Re: A Question About Lighting Design in Accordance With EN 12464-1

05/22/2015 6:03 PM

I am currently working on a hospital project.

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#9

Re: A Question About Lighting Design in Accordance With EN 12464-1

05/25/2015 6:33 AM

Like all things you must be aware of the proper use of software and its limitations. Dialux is a useful tool but the user must be knowledgeable in the subject and interpret results in a meaningful way. Your statement "I do not have a lot of choices to decide which luminaire to use" rings alarm bells, as after 30 years in lighting design I can assure you that there are many thousands of choices and solutions in even the most basic lighting proposal. Here are a few pointers to solve this conundrum:

Luminaires are available in a variety of outputs. Choose the same fitting with lower output lamps or LEDs, or switch to a manufacturer that offers such a range.

Are you applying correct maintenance factors? Include in your estimates the cleaning cycles applicable in your project. Typically Dialux uses an MF of 0.85. Lower MFs will reduce the effective output of your fitting.

What is your perimeter boundary value? Again Dialux typically uses 0.8m from walls but depends on setup. Is this boundary realistic? Wider boundaries reduce the effective floor area for calculation.

Is your area oblong? Dialux calculates the average across an oblong area quite accurately but can go slightly amiss when the floor area is many-sided. (The commercial package AGI does not suffer from this anomaly). This can be resolved in Dialux by inserting separate, independent oblong calculation planes into your project. For example, dedicated over the desk areas. This also gives the opportunity to insert planes at floor level for circulation areas which will improve uniformity calcs.

Dimming solution. Most building regulations (and certainly international standards) require daylight harvesting. This has a secondary effect of dimming fittings to a fixed maximum level in the absence of daylight.

Sorry I could go on and on but this is not a Dialux training course. Suffice to say that you need to be aware of the design methods required to solve problems that software can highlight; only more study and experience can provide this.

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Re: A Question About Lighting Design in Accordance With EN 12464-1

06/01/2015 1:42 AM
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