Brewing Your Own Beer

I think you should send me some for extensive testing and analysis

I think this would make a good blog.

I have the inclination, but neither the time nor space right now. I hope to do this in our basement when/if I retire.

I started this thread some time ago:

Home Brewed Craft Beer

There's enough Chemical & Material Science, process engineering and general interest in the forum for a running commentary.

Cheers.

I agree with Lyn that this could be enjoyable to follow. I tried home-brewing once, about 15 years ago, but had trouble racking off into bottles. When I have more time, I want to try again, but leave the beer in kegs or the like rather than bottles.

Thanks! I'll see if I can scrape up some time to put together a blog.

Bottling is tedious, but if you're going to try it again I recommend an auto-siphon to go from the carboy to a bottling bucket. And then use a bottling wand to go from the bucket to bottles. Also a sanitizing station and tree make life easier.

But if bottling turned you off I agree with you to start trying what I'll be trying for the brew I just made, and kegging. I got a reconditioned corny keg (ball lock) from morebeer.com for $70. (Then when I went to get my CO2 bottle filled the guy had them on sale for $50. Internet doesn't always win!) I will then force carbonate my brew after active fermentation completes in about 2-5 days now. It's definitely a more expensive option being a keg, fridge, CO2, regulator, lines, dispenser, etc. vs simply 50 bottles. But it lets you go from boil to glass quicker. And how about coming in after mowing the lawn on a hot day, grabbing a glass, and just filling up at a tap. I'm looking forward to that!

When I lived in the UK, I made beer, wine, Ginger Beer and fizzy lemonade (its a similar process and yes its faintly alcoholic, but far less than 2% and kids can (could?) legally drink it in the UK!!)

The single most important point for such a hobby is cleanliness and sterilisation of the wort/most if there are any thoughts about unwanted/wild yeasts, which might give a bad taste or even make you ill..

If you can buy "live" beer yeast, do it.

But as you said, you can make a yeast "starter" from dry yeast, but do not forget that for yeast to multiply rapidly, it must get some oxygen, so you need to blow some air into the starter container (only half full of liquid or less) and shake it to get the oxygen into the liquid. Several times a day!!

The larger the volume left empty, the quicker the "starter" starts, as adding air and shaking it also does.....don't be in a hurry.

Letting the yeast start in a still warm wort gets alcohol into the liquid fast, which will prevent it going off, but once the first few days are gone, brewing at a slower and lower temperature is usually best. You can "train" the yeast to accept a higher and higher level of alcohol that way, to allow for stronger brews if wished.

Don't forget that yeast "eats" sugar, "Farts" CO2 and "Pisses" alcohol......YUMMY!!!

Swimming in your own pee is not the best thing for the yest and that will eventually "stop" the yeast working.....though it is not dead.

Some brewers save the "fallout", or part of it and use it to start the next Brew, though I have never done that myself.....I have been told that this helps with "consistency" of your product from batch to batch.....

Here we can buy beer in bottles and crates, with a reusable, attached stopper. Like here:-

Easy to sterilise and re-use, also it looks good and gives a good quality/quantity of CO2, in those beers that need it.....

Also no need to use Crown corks either......

Do you get such bottles where you are, sadly , they come full, so you need to plan time for emptying and sterilising!!!

Great hobby, but here I only make Cider and Applejack (German style), I came 6th (out of 14 entries) in a recent contest with what will be my last time, as my back precludes picking up apples off the ground, sadly. I have won there several times since 1986!!

Good beer is so cheap, you cannot make it any better for less......so I simply buy it!!

Are you a bitburger man? What other great beer is super cheap in your neck of the woods?

Pennymarkt here has a couple of beers well worth drinking, their Export and their Pils are good, as is their Weizen, all between 30 and 45 €Cents.....Probably around US 0.45 - 0.60 at a rough guess, for half a liter, which is a little more than an US Pint.....

Alcohol level is between 5 - 5.6 %

Those three satisfy my needs here.....

In the UK I used to make Ale at around 14%, drink two (Imperial) pints of that and you knew you had had a drink!!

I also made German cider years ago (1983) at the same strength, a pint gave me a headache!! But it tasted great.....

I was at first taken back reading "good beer is so cheap" - but then I realized you're in Germany...so yeah. We're nothing short of jealous over here. However, making good beer myself for less than a dollar a bottle is a pretty satisfying workaround.

"When I lived in the UK, I made beer, wine, Ginger Beer and fizzy lemonade (its a similar process and yes its faintly alcoholic, but far less than 2% and kids can (could?) legally drink it in the UK!!)"

What's it like living in a part of the world where people don't get freaked out by the mention of "kids" and "alcohol" in the same sentence? US has such strange standards. Of course you shouldn't get your kids drunk, but if it isn't treated so taboo while growing up, they won't explode like a compressed spring let free when they leave the house. Just my thoughts. ;)

"The single most important point for such a hobby is cleanliness and sterilisation of the wort/most if there are any thoughts about unwanted/wild yeasts, which might give a bad taste or even make you ill.."

Yep, clean and sterilize everything. I used to use a power that you'd have to rinse - but that kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it? I've since switched to using star-san and I'll never look back. Just a tiny amount in a spray bottle, just spray what you need to sanitize, no rinse. Doesn't effect the beer. Great stuff.

"If you can buy "live" beer yeast, do it. But as you said, you can make a yeast "starter" from dry yeast, but do not forget that for yeast to multiply rapidly, it must get some oxygen, so you need to blow some air into the starter container (only half full of liquid or less) and shake it to get the oxygen into the liquid. Several times a day!!"

Yeah I bought a vile of white labs abbey ale. Made the starter a couple days before and gave it a good shake as often as I possibly could. I read you get 3x more yeast production by using a stir plate. So I may have to invest in that for my next brew.

"but once the first few days are gone, brewing at a slower and lower temperature is usually best. You can "train" the yeast to accept a higher and higher level of alcohol that way, to allow for stronger brews if wished."

I didn't know this. I have a kegerator but I'm not sure if I can get it at the right temperature. What temp do you suggest after the first few days? I was planning on just racking to the keg after 2-5 days of fermentation.

"Some brewers save the "fallout", or part of it and use it to start the next Brew, though I have never done that myself.....I have been told that this helps with "consistency" of your product from batch to batch....."

I'm planning on doing that for the first time with this batch. I'm going to harvest and wash the yeast. It looks pretty simple, just adds more time to the process. Some may argue why bother for a $7 vial of yeast. But, I like the strain and I plan on using it again, so I might as well keep it. Plus you get a ton more yeast of course. And yeah if you're using the same strain that definitely helps consistency.

"Do you get such bottles where you are, sadly

, they come full, so you need to plan time for emptying and sterilising!!!"

Yeah it's a bothersome task emptying all the bottle full of beer. ;) Thankfully one of my favorite beers have labels that come off quite easily. But again, kegging is in my future.

That's cool we've got award winning cider makers among us! I think we've got a great amount of knowledge on the subject here!

I really liked your comments, all of them, you really "know your onions Beers!"

My children were from quite an early age, 10 or so, allowed to have a tiny sherry glass of beer or wine at family feasts...when no one else was there......neither drink much even today (29 and 32!), just when we have a family time.....and NEVER when driving!

I am very happy with both of them, particularly in that respect.....also, we were unconventional with their languages and we stopped them learning English at home, till they learned it at school.....German is considered to be the most difficult European language (3 ways to say "you"!!)

Both speak both languages fluently, both need and use them both at work, both passed all their exams in both languages, both have also studied Business English as well!

Which is where people who speak two languages from birth, can speak both of them well, but cannot write either of them without many mistakes....usually they fail written exams!!

By the way, you wrote "Vile" for Vial", major differences between those two words.........

My Cider is brewed at between 8-10°C, in a cellar.....dropping to 5°C in winter.....slowly brewed, it takes 4 - 5 months........from October till March/April.

If I want a strong brew, I measure and note when the sugar is gone, and make up a mixture of white sugar, water and a tiny bit of lemon juice, just bring to the boil, cool and add it at a rate of about 1-3Kg of sugar a week (depends on volume of liquid), watching the sugar level and waiting till it has been used up....before adding more.

There are also tables available, so that you know the original sugar level from the apples and you know the volume, and the table will tell you how much sugar will convert to how much alcohol. Add them together, and you have an approximate value for the final strength. There are also cheap devices to tell you even more exactly, as long as the sugar is completely used up...

Hi, making your own drink is a nice hobby.

I'm into wine, over the years I created a little vineyard which brings me up to 20kg of grapes. Maintaining the plants and trimming it to give better grapes is an art on itself.

Deciding when to harvest is also tricky, I live up north (52°) so I don't have to worry about getting too much sugar, only too little.

I don't have to use yeast, as the yeast comes with the gapes (the white powder on the grapes is yeast, which is part of our normal air dust)

The vinification is a two step approach of most fermentation (the crushed grapes, complete) filtering and closed fermentation (in a flask with water lock)

As I make red wine I do the fermentation at room temperature. White wines start from filtered grape juice and tend to ferment at lower temperatures.

After the process has stopped I usually leave the wine in the flask till I need it again (11 months later).

Filling the bottles is the most difficult part as you should not shake the flask to keep the fallout out of the liquid.

Then it is the waiting for another 1 to 5 years to let the wine mature.

Important in the vinification is to keep the fruit flies out of the most, they like to eat the yeast and are attracted by the gasses of fermentation, so they will find your tank.

This process of natural fermentation is also possible with beer, this is called Geuze. In a lot of countries this can't be called beer as the cooking is not done, but the effect is superb, this beer is often compared with champaign (the better brew-master's product).

Typically this only works in winter and results in a huge spread on the end product, blending is required to get a specific taste.

Regions east of Brussels are known for this Geuze beer. East is wine region and more industrial beers.

Now I have a more general question: is there a simple test to detect the presence of methanol as an error in your process could result in making the wrong alcohol.

As far as I am aware, methanol in non distilled drinks is usually very low, but badly distilled to spirits can form stronger versions.....

I found this on the web, which supports my own knowledge as well (or the other way around!). See what you think:-

Methanol & Other Impurities

Methanol is formed when fermenting beverages high in pectins - eg grapes and berries. Starting with a grain or sugar based wort, in a clean fermentor with a yeast culture from a well aereated source will result in small/none formed. Carl from Hambletonbard (makers of Alcotec yeasts) details ..

Methanol, you will typically get around 2 or 3 parts per million (or milligrams per litre if you prefer) of methanol produced during fermentation of a standard 6kg type Alcotec - this is extremely low even compared to commercial products. We don't have a great deal of data on methanol because whenever we have tested for it we have got extremely low results.

Mike explains about the pectin ..

The methanol comes from the pectin, which mainly composed of methyl esters of galactose. When pectin breaks down, by enzymes introduced by microorganisms, or deliberately introduced, the methyl esters combine with water to produce methanol, so the aim should be to leave the pectin well alone if you can.

I think Jack would agree that what he means is that fermenting at a high temperature, or adding pectin enzyme, or trying for an abv higher than 12% all increase the risk of methanol being produced, so his advice about low temperature fermentation, adding no extra enzymes, and a target lower than 12%abv is all good stuff.

The underlined part show how dangerous wild yeasts are with respect to methanol production, even more likely when the most is not sterilised first and then good quality (safe) wine yeast added.

But Gwen as you do it using the natural yeasts that are on the skin of the grapes, you have a greater chance of producing methanol.....

Also, lthe arger quantities of Pectin in grapes anyway could be a problem, but beer generally does not have any pectin as far as I am aware..........

This except is taken from here:-

methanol in DIY Beer and Wine

You will also notice the sentence with regard to a well aerated starter, that helps to reduce the methanol production:-

"in a clean fermentor with a yeast culture from a well aereated source"

I hope this helps further with my recent comments about adding air/oxygen to the starter to increase the number of and their capacity to "work" of the yeast cells..........

My personal take is that with DIY beer, the dangers of methanol can be safely ignored as long as scrupulous cleanliness is always observed.....and no wild yeasts used....as all the books I have read on the subject also say.....

At least I'm correct to take care on the methanol production when making wine, as the natural fermentation is inevitable (the most is never cooked)

One dangerous source of methanol is to use wooden barrels for the fermentation/vinification: you should never do that. Fermentation needs to happen in an inert container.

Thanks for the link.

Glad to be of service....

Gwen,

What do you have planted?

What is your soil / earth like where you planted?

How many years old are your vines?

Got any pictures ?

Pinot noir

The soil is heavy stuff: clay / loam, in winter too sticky and in summer too hard

important is the availability of water: I have water layers at different depths, containing quite some minerals

They are 8 years now.

I combined practical to handy: the vines give necessary shade for my dog. (they cover the kennel)

Interesting. You picked maybe the best red grape for that soil type.

There's a ton of clay in our neck of the woods of Upstate NY but also throughout the finger lakes.

You also hit on the other big question which is water and just as importantly drainage for that water though I'm not familiar with water layers.

8 year old vines should be making you some nice juice! How's your concentration?

I think you should send one over for me so I can say I've tried a Belgian wine! I'd be sure to share some with yamdankee

You'd better if you're going to hijack my beer thread with wine chat.

I don't pick my soil, I happen to be married to a girl from the region, wanting to live at least 2 villages away from my parents in law brought me in Glabbeek.

This is a fruit region, most money is made here with pears and apples. But if you know how it looks you see a lot of farmers having their Vineyard, for personal use. This used to be the most northly region the Romans colonised. And romans only stayed in a region where they could make wine.

The wine industry lasted till Napoleon tore it down. (Waterloo is not that far away)Now it is living up again, with some very special nice wines. Most white, but some are red. But you taste the missing sun.

I have to say that I am not a Gardner, but if I remember correctly, vines do better in less than perfect soil.

But if you feel its TOO poor, surely one can add wood ash or sand, or humus, or whatever they need around the roots.....

I did find this Wiki link, which is "Double Dutch" to me (Double Flemish too?), but maybe it can help (assuming you have not found it already!!

List_of_vineyard_soil_types

Best of luck....

I agree with FREDSKI.

We need to perform extensive testing so you can either ship some our way or send us your address and we will perform some onsite testing.

Looking good and best of luck to you in your brewing!

We could develop a CR4 quality label for DIY alcoholic drinks

wait, not so fast.

We first have to settle on a quality standard, which requires some comparative testing.

I thought we were doing that?

HIC!