Previous in Forum: Isolation Transformer   Next in Forum: Medium Voltage Concentric Neutral Cables with Shield
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2

V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/21/2015 5:55 AM

We are facing repeated failure of V5 Cell IGBT & DC link semiconductor fuse in our 6600V, TM Drive-MVG. V5 IGBT failed 3 times in a short span of 3 days. First time during drive running. Then, next two times during inverter start-up. No problem if DC power link is charged but inverter is not switched ON.

1. Please let me know how we can check the firing pulses of power IGBTs in drive panel, without converting DC to AC by inverter circuit.Which "drive parameters" to be adjusted?

2. Can we run 5.5 to 22kw, 415 v motor with TM Drive-MVG by connecting 415 volt in place of 6600v? & how? Which "drive parameters" to be adjusted?

Please let me know other possible reasons for repeated failure of V5 Cell.

VVVFD type: VTIMG6B46636

Make: Toshiba Mitsubishi-Electric Industrial Systems Corporation

W. Regards,

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
2
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eastern Arizona mountains on Route 666 about a mile from God's country
Posts: 1676
Good Answers: 122
#1

Re: V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/21/2015 10:05 AM

Some drives require pre-charge of the DC link prior to the inverter being placed in operation.

I would consult the Installation and Operations Manual to find out if this is required then determine if it is happening or not. The added DC Link charging current can be enough to result in a drive overload during starting.

More than likely you have a shorted drive component.

I would start by de-energizing the drive and performing simple continuity tests on all IGBT, diode, resistor, inductor, and capacitor components.

If you do not identify any shorted components I would then verify all power supply values to be within specifications. (Voltage & frequency)

If all power supplies are within acceptable limits I would disconnect the load and try energizing the drive.

If the drive fuses do not fail I would use an oscilloscope to probe the drive control circuits to verify proper operation and identify the source of failure.

In order to perform this test effectively you must have the factory OEM troubleshooting guide and schematics.

If you do not have a copy a call to Toshiba and/or a visit to their website will yield a copy.

If you do not have the proper test equipment or do not fully understand the test procedures it is in your best interest to contact Toshiba and arrange for on-site technical support service.

As far as substituting 415V for the 6600V supply: I would say no offhand however only Toshiba technical support can answer the question competently.

Good luck and stay safe.

__________________
They said; "Brain size?" I heard; "Train size?" so I said: "I'll take a small one, thank you."
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User
United States - Member - New Member Hobbies - HAM Radio - AC9JZ extra

Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 156
Good Answers: 9
#2
In reply to #1

Re: V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/21/2015 11:13 AM

Well said, Shockhiscan. I would add, that when replacing IGBT's or MOSFET's in an inverter power supply, I would automatically replace the Drive Board(s) with new factory replacements. I identified one problem with the drive boards we had, the electrolytic capacitors degrade from heat and time, causing the IGBT's to draw excessive current. They can be checked in circuit, with power off, using an ESR meter.

Also, when replacing/handling IGBT's or MOSFET's, use a grounded wrist strap to dissipate any static which can damage the gates.

__________________
The only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1686
Good Answers: 116
#3

Re: V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/21/2015 2:07 PM

I endorse SCHOCKISTAN response. I would like to add....

A 6600V application is likely to use IGBTs in series and RC snubber networks/voltage dependent resistors will be in parallel with each IGBT to ensure voltage sharing in off-state. If the capacitor is open-circuit, just a continuity check will not find it. A good multimeter will be able to measure capacitance value and an insulation tester could check leakage and detect charging current. "Keep in mind" that a defective snubber on the IGBT in series with V5 could throw excess volts onto V5.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
5
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#4

Re: V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/21/2015 3:15 PM

WARNING!!!

You cannot test ANYTHING inside of a running / operating MV drive!!!!!!!

That particular drive is a "Multi-Level Inverter", aka "Cascaded H-Bridge" (CHB) inverter topology. This is a technology pioneered by Robicon, who lost their patent protection in 2011, at which time every other MV drive mfr jumped on the band wagon because it is inexpensive to make and provides some significant benefits over other types of Voltage Source Inverter topologies.

On of the advantages is that the output inverter stage is comprised of a series (cascaded) string of LOW voltage cells to create the MV output. So CAN you test a cell at low voltage? Absolutely! That's one reason they made it this way. But you do so on a BENCH, not inside of the drive.

If the SAME cell keeps blowing a transistor, it's likely one of a few possible reasons:

  1. To make this work, there is a multi-output phase shifting transformer ahead of the drive, creating (in the case of 6.9kV) 36 individual low voltage outputs that feed the individual cells. (see drawing below). If the winding on that cell circuit is bad, you will damage each cell you put into that circuit in that spot.
  2. If the firing circuit for that cell is bad, it will keep misfiring the transistors in that cell after you replace the transistors, damaging them again.
  3. If the capacitors in that cell are bad, the DC bus in that cell will have too much ripple and damage the transistors.
  4. If the precharge circuit for that cell is bad, it will damage the capacitors, then lead to #3 above.

This image would represent a 2300V drive, your would be 3x this

For those reasons, the mfr SHOULD have warned you to NEVER replace JUST the transistors within a cell, you replace the ENTIRE cell, then send the bad one to them for testing. This is true of ALL CHB topology drives on the market. Their salesmen sometimes TALK about how you can remove a cell and work on it on the bench, but if you speak to the SERVICE department, they will tell you that without VERY SOPHISTICATED troubleshooting skills and expensive diagnostic tools, you SHOULD NOT do so. Leave it to those who KNOW what to look for.

You should have a complete spare power cell and swap it out. If that's what you have and that's what you did, then it leaves only the transformer as the likely culprit, in which case prepare for a WHOPPING bill to replace it!

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2
#7
In reply to #4

Re: V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/22/2015 2:38 PM

Thanks a lot JRaef.I have 18 cells in our 6.6KV drive.I understands that this drive operates at a dangerous level of potential. Hence, I would like to check/verify inverter IGBT firing pulses with the help of CRO by feeding 415 V in place of 6600V. In this way I will get approx 3 phase, 42V at the input side of individual cells. For enabling the gate circuit I am planning to feed 230V to CCD card separately. At this point, while taking the trial with 415V motor, I expect "undervoltage", "undercurrnt" & "no load connected" problems. Drive will sense these problems & will inhibit the firing pulses to inverter. Hence I need to simulate the drive by changing the parameters to overcome above three problems at this stage.I have found the faulty IGBTs in earlier V5 Cell & am equipped with new cell from TMEIC. Can you please send me some reference for multi-output phase shifting transformer & the significance of phase shifting in multi-cell drives.

Register to Reply
2
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#5

Re: V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/21/2015 4:24 PM

Here is the actual sketch from TMEIC for this 6.6kV drive.

They don't show the pre-charge circuit on this, but I cannot imagine they would be so foolish as to not have one. I think it's just a level of detail not suited for a website that is sales-oriented.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 482
#6

Re: V5 Cell Failure in TMdrive-MVG

09/22/2015 3:48 AM

Smells like an elevator drive, to me.

  • Check motor winding integrity, conduct insulation test
  • Conduct insulation test on wiring (load side) extending to the motor
  • Do a functional check on all IGBT's (replace all defective IGBTs)
  • Come back when all the checks are made with a mug of beer-that should do it.
__________________
The doctor said "just one post or reply aday in CR4, take it or leave it". I said, "what does that mean?"
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 7 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

67model (1); JRaef (2); Legolaz (1); Mike Proctor (1); RAM SINGH DIGARI (1); SHOCKHISCAN (1)

Previous in Forum: Isolation Transformer   Next in Forum: Medium Voltage Concentric Neutral Cables with Shield

Advertisement