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Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 5:02 AM

I was recently working on a DOL control panel for a water pump with a motor of 15 kW. The power for the pump motor was supplied by a 40 kVA diesel generator but the power to the control circuit (contactors, relays) was supplied by solar with batteries and an inverter. At motor start up, the generator voltage dipped but the contactors did not trip.

For motor starting much larger generators are used (in the order of 6 to 8 times the motor kVA for DOL starters and 2 to 3 times for star delta starters) to ensure that the voltage dip is kept to a max of 35% to avoid contactors from tripping.

My question is why don't we use a small generator or solar power to power the contactors and then use a generator of the same kVA as of the motor for the main power. For a large installation with contactors on the load side, this may not be advisable but on an installation for a borehole pump for example, this would considerably reduce the size of the main generator.

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#1

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 5:14 AM

It isn't only a question of the contactors holding in; the 3x to 6x multiple is also necessary to accelerate the motor up to speed, using the mentioned starting methods. This can be improved if using a VFD instead.

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#2

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 7:15 AM

Because you need extra oomph from the generator to get the motor away from rest.

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#3

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 9:15 AM

If you don't care if the motor actually starts then you can do anything you want. Just don't blame anybody but yourself if any equipment gets damaged from operating things outside of the designed parameters.

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#4

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 10:22 AM

Perhaps, I am unclear, but your use of the word "Trip" in describing contactor action is confusing, especially when you state "but the power to the control circuit (contactors, relays) was supplied by solar with batteries and an inverter". This would explain "At motor start up, the generator voltage dipped but the contactors did not trip." If "Trip" is to mean drop out or open.

The starting of a motor, direct on line, requires the generator to be capable of delivering the start or locked rotor current, without collapsing the excitation, engine governor reaction, required engine torque, and flywheel mass.

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#5

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 10:24 AM

The contactor is not dropping out because the control circuit voltage is being fed from the solar/battery power source which cannot and is not affected by the dip in generator voltage.

Motor horsepower/watts and design determine how much power is required to start and run a motor.

If the motor supply/generator voltage is dipping during the starting circuit then the generator is not large enough and will fail due to overload.

It is possible to power any motor from a solar system with battery backup.

There are literally millions of sites throughout the world where small to medium size motors are currently being powered by solar systems with battery backup. (Submersible pumps, pump jacks, centrifugal pumps, air conditioning system compressor motors, air compressor motors, etc.)

Limitations are:

1. Physical size and footprint of the solar array and battery bank required to meet the system electrical demand to start and run the selected motor(s).

2. Inherent high cost for purchase, installation, and maintenance of the solar system and batteries.

Hope this helps.

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#6

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 11:16 AM

What you are describing is done quite a but, especially on very large motors. The caveat is that the generator must be dedicated to the load, because the voltage dip affects everything on the bus. But if it is dedicated, you latch in the contactors ( or in your case, power them from a different source), then when the motor starts, it bogs down the generator. The generator is allowed to slow down (by defeating the governor limits) which reduces the frequency with the voltage, similar to what a VFD does. That actually allows the motor to be accelerated BY the generator engine almost directly. Works great, I've done it dozens of times on large remote pump stations where the line supply is stiff enough to allow Across-The-Line (DOL) starting under normal circumstances, but needs a backup generator for power outages. This allows the generator to be sized closer to the motor size.

Again, to be clear, this is ONLY done when the motor in question is the ONLY important load, because the sever voltage and frequency dip will potentially damage other equipment. And you cannot do it with any form of reduced voltage starter, that makes it worse, nor any type of electronic control like a VFD or Soft Starter. It works only on ATL/DOL starters. In the ones I have done, we used large vacuum contactors that were latching so they did not drop out during the start sequence. That adds a level of trickiness too, so it's not for the faint of heart.

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/25/2015 12:24 AM

Thank you very much for your and all the other contributions which are highly enlightening and have provided me with the answers I was looking for.

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#7

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/23/2015 11:38 PM

use reduced voltage starter.

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#8

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/24/2015 12:56 AM

Interface the relays/contactors from a separate or independent power supply.

Like this attached photo from transistor to SSR to LV Relays to HV Relays whatever applies to your case.

In Power plants, there is a power supply dedicated to control systems independently. They call it "black start" generator or from some other networks to start the operation.

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#9

Re: Motor Starting - Generator Voltage Dip

09/24/2015 10:03 AM

If efficiency and size is of real concern than why not use a mechanically coupled pump. I mean connect the pump direct to the engine.

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