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Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/23/2015 8:31 PM

I read NFPA sprinkler handbook and observed that NFPA actually doesn't limit the nos of floors to be served by one stack riser because the concept of designing a sprinkler system is based on floor basis. My question is : for a 50 storey building, is the height really not an issue ? If the sprinkler pump is sized to serve a 50 storey, this will create a big gap of pressure head for operation of lowest and highest floors. Would this practical ? What about sprinkler head at lowest floor, could it sustain such a high pressure without bursting the tube ? Anyone can advise me is shopping mall classified as light hazard or ordinary I hazard ? Thank you.

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#1

Re: Sprinkler height limitation

09/23/2015 8:46 PM
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#8
In reply to #1

Re: Sprinkler height limitation

09/24/2015 1:29 AM

I read your attached articles. But this seems not answering my questions. Whether single pump can feed 50 floors and hazard classification for shopping mall. However, thanks for the reference.

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Sprinkler height limitation

09/24/2015 10:37 AM

Yes. If the pump is of the correct type and adequately sized to meet the fire system pressure and flow requirements.

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#15
In reply to #1

Re: Sprinkler height limitation

09/24/2015 11:42 AM

I didn't find anything in those references about multi-story high-rises.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Sprinkler height limitation

09/24/2015 6:36 PM

Then it was a perfect match for the quality of the question.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Sprinkler height limitation

09/24/2015 6:44 PM

Maybe for the quality, but not the content. The OP did ask one correct question, but failed to ask many others, and provided too little information.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Sprinkler height limitation

09/24/2015 6:53 PM

I'll concede that the OP asked a slightly better question this time.

Track records are what they are.

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#2

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/23/2015 11:30 PM

Have a storage tank for every 5 storeys to supply water to sprinklers.Install duplex pumps in basement to supply each tank.

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#10
In reply to #2

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 1:50 AM

I am afraid this will end in tears! Sprinkler system fed from storage tanks? Next question is what size the storage tanks! You know where this is heading, right?

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#3

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 12:25 AM

Your proposed system is not practical and will not work in the real world. 50 stories = 500 ft = 217psi of water head just to get it up and without flow. Sprinkler heads work best when fed with 100psi at the head. Add another 100psi so you need 317 psi to run the 50th floor. Pumps capable of several thousand gpm and over 317 psi are large and expensive. Redundancy then is needed.

Fire engines supplement the supply of water to sprinkler systems when there is a fire in a sprinkler building. Most fire engines have a max of 200psi and 2,000gpm or less, single stage pumps. A few have dual stage pumps which can put out 400psi at 1,000 gpm. Using an engine to assist the sprinkler system won't work in this situation therefor not enough water at the 50th floor. All this does not include frictional drag from the fittings, pipes, etc. Steel pipe (black iron) is used for sprinkler systems. They are usually threaded joints and/or Victaulic clamp fittings. These very likely won't take the pressure and especially the hydraulic water hammer of the water as the system operates and especially shuts down.

It won't work.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 1:26 AM

In your experience, how sprinkler pumping in this situation shall be tackled ? Is it stage pumping the only choice ? How many floors recommended for each stage ?

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#4

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 12:40 AM

This thread is another example of providing a drunken blind man with a gun and inviting him to listen to the bangs.

A cursory examination of cckla's history will confirm his incompetence.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 1:23 AM

I feel that CR4 is a platform where all the engineers could share their experience or seeking helps from others. This shall be the reason we all here. I agree I might incompetence elsewhere in M&E field. So, this is why I am here to get advice and get improved.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 1:29 AM

Yes, just move on. The forum is like a pact of wolves, all having an individual role in the gang.

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#5

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 12:42 AM

Nope, talking about fire water system ,common sense dictates and it is safer that there should be a redundant pumping system(motorized & auxiliary diesel engine drive) not only one, installed and probably couple of PRV's to corresponding floors regulating the pressure per zone, like wise the fire water tanks might as well be implemented per zone.

Say, you got a fire in the zone 5 (serving floor 45~50) then only, that zone will be activated.

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#11
In reply to #5

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 1:54 AM

Can you please leave my punch line out of your replies please?

Thanks!

Your understanding is very much appreciated!

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 3:16 AM

Oops, i did it the first time around, sorry. Part of being a cr4 addict, people's signature seems a part of instinct/reflex.

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#13

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 5:24 AM

Well, if it were me, then I'd be getting drawings out from similar buildings, reviewing their firewater designs, and seeing what I could clone. I'm not good at reinventing the wheel, then, I'm funny that way.

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#16

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 3:21 PM

Any building height can be protected by a sprinkler system, and certainly a 50 story building can.

The pump must be listed for fire service.

The pump is sized based on pressure requirements to maintain adequate water flow at the most remote hydraulic zone (floor 50 in this case).

The pipe may need to be schedule 80 or 160 to support the pressure.

If the local fire department does not have adequate pumping capacity to supply water to floor 50 using their pumpers, you must supply a back-up electrical supply to your fire pump (if it is electrical) Diesel driven pumps are OK as-is.

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: Sprinkler Height Limitation

09/24/2015 11:23 PM

In every 5 floors install a storage tank and pumps. Basement pumps up to 5th floor,fifthfloor pumps up to 10th floor,10th floor pumps up to 15 floors etc.The size of ranks will decrease every 5 floors.

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cckla (3); Crabtree (1); IdeaSmith (2); Legolaz (3); lyn (4); old salt (1); pnaban (2); SHOCKHISCAN (1); Tornado (2); WJMFIRE (1)

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