Gas Pipeline Testing

Yes. Portable ground penetrating radar and sonar systems are available to discover underground utilities.

I have an issue with a pipeline that is not mapped and I need to know if the line is live or abandoned.

Is there a safe NDT that could be done to find out if the pipeline is active or if it is not actually gas line.

By the way the pipeline has no marking and it is not on the map.

WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?????

If you're in the USA - Call dial before you dig and they can identify the pipeline.

Contact a line location service!

If the pipeline is not yours, then don't touch it. If it is a gas pipeline and you disturb it, you're going to be in a lot of trouble!

A lot more details about where you and the pipeline are located, what depth you found it at and its made of would make this easier.

If its in your yard and the local utility companies have no record of it its likely a line some previous owner of the property put in for what ever reason. Or it could very well just be a piece of junk that got buried during some landscaping or dirt work done years ago.

Oh hell!!! just hit it with a hammer and poo will come out!

There are some NDT tests one can perform that indicate mechanical vibrations of a pipeline in use but the results of the test will only tell if a pipe is clearly in use transporting material at that time, not that the pipe has been abandoned. Even if the pipe is abandoned the residual gas build up might become a hazard, too.

Just because this pipe is not on your map doesn't mean that is not mapped. Check all authorities relevant to your (unknown by us) region. Ground penetrating radar and seismic sonar testing can provide topological information of the path this pipe takes. What you find along this path may give you the clue to solve this.

Thank you all for your inputs.

The pipe is in Chicago suburbs

The local companies had been put on notice and no one so far is claiming the pipe. The local locating company is not declaring the pipe as abandoned.

The location of the pipe is very suspicious and we think it is being used either by the gas or electric companies, but nether company will gave us the ok. We will be contacting a GPR company and see if they could help us.

The pipe was exposed during excavation and it seems to be continues, so it is not s small section so far we exposed about a 100 foot.

How does the directional lay of the pipe relate to other structures in the area?

Does it appear to have defined layout form a point structure or utility connection point A to another such item at point B as a electrical conduit or gasoline or water line would?

Also what is it's size, depth and type of material?

BTW if no one claims the pipe and its contents is theirs then you are not liable for what may come from cutting it and the find out it is their pipe.

I wouldn't do anything with that pipe. What if it's high pressure natural gas? They hit the pipe and it starts to leak. What now?

Whomever disturbed the pipe will bear the cost of the repairs and all other costs associated with the pipeline repair. I.E emergency services, police, fire, overtime call-outs etc.....

Yes, it would be nice to know what type of material the pipe is made from.

That would tell you a lot just from that information!

Is it:

• PVC?
• Cement?
• Steel?
• Cast Iron?
• Clay?
• Cement covered steel?
• ABS?

Tell us what the pipe material is and maybe we could throw around a few educated guesses and then lay some bets to see who's correct when the pipe is finally opened and removed!

Bucatini?

Call a company that specializes in handling the remediation of leaking storage tanks and piping. They will know how to identify and handle underground piping and utilities, including the necessary research, permitting, and removal.

The last thing that you want to do is crack the pipe and get sprayed by some toxic waste that flowed in that pipe 100 years ago; you risk turning your property into an EPA Superfund site and being liable for huge amounts of money for site cleanup, damages, and legal fees, including being forced to abandon your own property. Do it quietly now by hiring pros or risk being on the 6 o'clock news later.

Try here: http://www.illinois1call.com/

Let us know what they say. The "Call Julie" signs are everywhere, It would be amazing if they could not help you.

Those services are great, but they tend to know nothing about underground structures that weren't mapped, deeded, or recorded on private property. OP's best bet is to research all the property records and get a history of who owned it and what it was used for. He may find out that there was a factory covering the area 150 years ago, long before anybody had to tell the authorities about what they were doing.

Of course it would help if we knew the material, size, any markings, and how the joints are made up; lacking any information it is simply a ticking timebomb waiting to be set off.

Yah, I guess. You are supposed to call them Before you dig, which is not the case here.

The coordinates and Google maps may show something.

Old Salt,

Very good answer.

I had a feeling that someone would have a better answer than me! and most of the others

Thank you all.

We will follow up with most of the recommendations.

It has been very helpful.

Thank you

Really curious to know how it turns out.

ALso if you have photographs and a lat-long reference!

obviously a little knowledge is dangerous..

"potentially very large explosive there" uh huh.. so you believe it is filled with c4?

first off, what is the dia. of the pipe?

what is it made of?

what kind of joints exist on the pipe?

look at your deed to see what type of easments exist on the property. sometimes these pipes were installed many yrs ago by companies that are long gone.

if your deed doesn't have any easements on it, the pipeline was probably from an old well in the area that was capped off yrs ago, or even before natural gas was used. my deed has an easement for the old coal gas transmission line.

or if you live on the site of the old original farmstead it could be from that.

there is not going to be a "high pressure" gas line. gas distribution lines are low pressure in ounces and less.

if it were my property, i would drill a small hole in the line to see what comes out.

my guess is that it will have some nasty rusty water in it coming from where it was cut off yrs ago.

if your worried about electric wires in it you can use a clamp on ammeter.

Yes, "obviously a little knowledge is dangerous.." I know that. That's why I don't reply to OP's I don't know enough about the subject. Is the "little knowledge is dangerous your excuse today? Learn a lot more before time is wasted with unworkable solutions. Start with Risk Analysis. I don't "blow my horn" but my shoes are not soggy from being in my mouth.

Interesting you mentioned the C4. No, it wouldn't be C-4 since it requires a primer and the OP didn't have any wires going to the pipe. Next guess please.

Dia. of the pipe, what it is made of, kind of joints will tell him nothing definitive since most chemicals and gases can be transferred in several types of piping. Deeds are not accurate enough to do anything except confirm that maybe a pipeline is/was there. A good risk analysis will show this almost immediately.

If and when it is accurately determined what is most likely to be inside, extreme caution should be used. Any opening should be made with a hot-tap so that it can be closed quickly if necessary. Risks? How about the WW2 bombs that are still being found under an industrial park and college. Most are duds but a few aren't. There is a Navy ammo dump in my state which had dropped many bombs and other explosives into the area by the loading dock. Again, not planned but it happens.

Ever hear of: Appomattox, VA; Durham Woods, Edison, NJ; Bloomfield, NM; Abilene, TX; Chalk Point, MD; Cohasset, MD; and the other 115 pipeline accident reports, with numerous fatalities, listed in the MTSB Pipeline Accidents http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/pipeline.aspx

Good Luck, Old Salt

Came across your posting again. Engineering, especially the "dirty hands" type, is fraught with things that can go wrong despite the favorable risk analysis's that have done, the vendor's assurances, the politicians promises, the desk engineer who knows everything about what you are working on but has never seen it with his own eyes, the lab's analysis, etc.

Engineering has some risks. Often these are expressed as "Probability and Statistics". One might things that the odds of 10,000 to 1 are good odds. Maybe yes, if you are in the 10,000, certainly not if you are the "1".

Despite the encouragement that "No Pain, No Gain" and "No Falls, No Bxlls" might give to someone to take chances of what appear to be low risks, it still hurts if you are that "1"!

Good Luck, Old Salt

The first clue is the size and construction detail of the pipeline, which has been withheld from the forum; presumably insufficient of it has been exposed to determine these things, otherwise the data would have been in the original posting. The risk in exposing more of it resides in the possibility that the overburden is part of the designed restraint of the pipe, and removing it could cause all hell to break loose!

So get specialised local help without delay.