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Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/27/2015 5:20 PM

Hi All, Would anybody have a diagram/drawing of a typical air circulation / convection flow for this scenario --- 2ft diameter plastic pipe , 6ft long , buried vertically 6 ft, top 4ft has modest insulation/moisture barrier . Bottom of pipe is open for ground heat about 50 degrees . Top of pipe has insulated rubber cap with 10 in diameter hole to insert stainless bowel for water. Bowl is recessed into pipe except the rim which holds the bowl onto the insulated rubber cap . My question is, what would the natural air circulation look like during cold weather when temps are below freezing, would the circulation increase as the temps fall, and is there a non mechanical way to increase air flow with a baffle , etc ?My goal is to keep the water in the bowl from freezing solid. Im also considering coiling a tube full of water below the 6 ft and running a thermosyphon system up into the pipe for additional heat, do I need heat exchanger in the pipe ? This will be in an unheated, Un insulated building. Just trying to shorten the learning curve and minimize trial and error. Thanks

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#1

Re: Air flow pattern inside sealed pipe

09/27/2015 5:58 PM

There will not be any air "circulation" inside this closed pipe. There is no heat differential to cause convection, conduction of air/plastic is nil and radiation won't do anything either.

Not sure a fan will keep the water thawed, since we have no idea of soil temperature in the building.

You'll have to take a guess at some soil/air temperatures first.

The Alaska pipeline uses heat pipe technology.

Heat pipe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heat doesn't flow without thermal differential and a path. Air won't do it.

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#2

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/27/2015 7:42 PM

Wouldn't the ground heat, say 50 deg travel upwards 6 ft to the metal bowl of water at the top , chilled by the outdoor air temp of say 20 deg , and heat transferred thru the cold water from the earth ?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/27/2015 8:37 PM

You have not given a proper explanation. Is your bowl 6 feet deep also?

Think about each piece of the system and describe each one.

"upwards 6 ft to the metal bowl" implies the heat is radiating upward, as there will be almost no convection or conduction through air.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/27/2015 9:05 PM
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#5

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/27/2015 10:44 PM

Thanks Solar Eagle, That design would capture even more ground heat

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#6

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/28/2015 7:33 AM

Is there 110V AC power in the building? If so, just install a bird bath water heater to keep the water from freezing:

Amazon_bird_bath_water_heaters

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#7

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/28/2015 8:25 AM

Are there any diagram you could give perhaps, to support your query?Picture paints thousand words, you know.

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#8

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/28/2015 8:54 AM

What you propose is possible. There is more to it then just burying a pipe. Heat loss has to be calculated from the bowl. The surface area of the buried pipe has to be great enough to for the heat transfer to cover the heat loss. Also see a problem with the 2 inch pipe not being large enough. Turbulence will be a factor there as the cold air drops and heated air rises. I 10 inch pipe buried would give much more area for heat to transfer and reduce the turbilence. Also plastic is poor choice.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/28/2015 10:02 AM

"2ft diameter plastic pipe" not 2 inch.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/30/2015 12:53 PM

I my recommendation was for 10 inch pipe. Even in a 2 inch pipe you would have some convection. In a IGU(insulated glass unit) you have convection the space between the glass is about 1/2 inch. I see a problem in the reduction from 10" to 2" causing turbulence and disrupting the covection flow.

It may be necessary that 24" pipe would need to be used. There maybe a need for that much surface area to exchange the heat.

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#10

Re: Air Flow Pattern Inside Sealed Pipe

09/28/2015 10:05 AM

I don't think you are giving enough definition.

Here's what I'd do.

Go to Matweb and look at the thermal conductivity of whatever materials it is that you want to conduct the heat.

You will not have any convection in this system, to speak of. It's conductions and radiation.

Get cracking!

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