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Using Captured CO2 as Chemical Feedstock

10/29/2015 11:43 AM

"On 29 September, the XPRIZE Foundation based in Culver City, California, announced a 4½-year competition that will award US$20 million to the research team that can come up with the best way to turn carbon dioxide from a liability into an asset." ---------------

"Most of the calcium carbonate now used in industry, an estimated 15 billion tonnes per year, comes from mining such deposits. But since 2013, Calera has been operating a demonstration facility that produces the material from CO2 and carbide residue: an industrial waste that comes from the production of polyvinyl chloride (PVC). Calera first adds water to the residue to extract calcium hydroxide, then bubbles CO2-rich flue gas from a nearby industrial plant through the solution to obtain pure calcium carbonate, which is turned into fibre cement boards that can be used in construction." ----------------------

"This year, Styring evaluated various scenarios of CO2 utilization3. If 100% of urea, 30% of minerals, 20% of specific chemicals and polymers, 10% of methane and 5% of diesel and aviation fuels were supplied by currently known CO2-utilization methods, he estimates that around 1.34 gigatonnes of CO2 would be consumed per year. This equals around 83% of the IPPC's 2030 global target for emissions reductions through CO2 capture and storage. "These are very conservative estimates," says Styring. "It is likely that the impact will be much greater.""

http://www.nature.com/news/how-to-make-the-most-of-carbon-dioxide-1.18653?WT.ec_id=NEWS-20151029&spMailingID=49893583&spUserID=OTE3NzA2MjU2NgS2&spJobID=784093247&spReportId=Nzg0MDkzMjQ3S0

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#1

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/29/2015 11:55 AM

Isn't methane a more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140327111724.htm

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/29/2015 12:00 PM

The picture is showing relative chemical energies, not the process products?

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/30/2015 1:42 AM

Yes, its showing the relative chemical energy, guess why! Because all other products need additional energy to be created.

It shows the products too. Chemically you can not turn CO2 into gold.

So take it or leave it!

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/29/2015 3:10 PM

23 times more heat trapping effect

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#11
In reply to #1

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/30/2015 7:50 AM

I see 4 valence shells of Carbon has been paired. Is it not H, also plays vital content of energy in the compound?

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#29
In reply to #11

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/05/2015 6:19 AM

It's not the atoms themselves but the bonds between the atoms that determine the energy.

To determine the amount of energy you get from burning methane, you need to calculate the energy required breaking the four C-H bonds, and the O=O bonds in the oxygen. Subtract this from the energy released forming the CO2 and H2O bonds to get the net energy difference.

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#3

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/29/2015 12:10 PM
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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/29/2015 12:56 PM

Because of Stefan-Boltzmann Law it would take a very significant change in solar output to measurably effect our planet's equilibrium temperature where all other variables remain the same?

Because Britain and Northern Europe are dependent upon the oceanic conveyor to moderate climate and because the polar - equatorial thermal gradient drives the rate of that process it is quite conceivable that the higher latitude environments might see much cooler temperatures even as the global average increases?

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/30/2015 1:50 AM

Yes and in the day its warmer than in the night!

It gets colder so it can get warmer! Every day!

And the only thing the atmosphere does is it prevents the Earth from having extreme heating and cooling cycles. It heats and cools at the same time.

Retain heat in the atmosphere the same way it dissipates heat via convection from the ground to cool it.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/31/2015 2:55 AM

No, more turbulant weather with more intense rain and snow storms with higher winds cools the surface temps.

While Global Weather is acquiring more intensity from multiple small sources, it still responds in the way it always has, with more intense and faster moving large scale weather patterns that bring it back towards equilibrium.

The momentum of these large scale recalibrations takes them past the equilibrium point so they take time measured in decades or centuries to stabilize.

It is how far the pendulum swings that you have to worry about in the human scale of time. We've given it a pretty big push in the last two centuries since modern industrialization came into existance.

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/01/2015 9:08 PM

Show me the big push. Remember after Katrina it was said there will be more frequent hurricanes to come. There was not more so it was said they become stronger.

Nothing of this is true. Nothing.

There is not equilibrium point in a chaotic system. In my human scale of time I am still more worried when crossing the street.

As you will see the Winter still gets cold and the summer gets hot. Do you really think that while temperature swings over 40 deg C in places it has a big impact if the highest measured temperature is 40 or 40.5 deg C? The night is as cold afterwards as before or colder or just 0.5 deg C warmer.

The statistic over temperature holds no meaningful information because climate information is:

the composite or generally prevailing weather conditions of a region,as temperature, air pressure, humidity, precipitation, sunshine,cloudiness, and winds, throughout the year, averaged over a series of years.

You would think that it is time to look at some wind maps, the global pressure system, cloud and humidity distribution plus sunshine hours and so on to assess our climate!

By looking at just the temperature we further a statistical misinterpretation of our real climate system.

And by the way: There is no global weather! There also is no global climate other than as a statistical interpretation of everything on Earth . Weather is local, climate zones are regional.

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/02/2015 11:00 PM

"You would think that it is time to look at some wind maps, the global pressure system, cloud and humidity distribution plus sunshine hours and so on to assess our climate!"

The best peek might be at the change in the IR signature of the Earths disk.

To assume no human impact on climate is to suggest that atmospheric composition and albedo have no effect on equilibrium temperature.

And of course it has been suggested that if there is error to be made; do it on the side of caution.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/03/2015 2:50 AM

Well so good that I assume little to no impact on climate otherwise I would be offended.

Within a variation of 30-35% of Albedo effect how much of a man made effect is in it?

You are poring oil in the fire because here is some hard facts:

Earth's average surface temperature due to its albedo and the greenhouse effect is currently about 15 °C.

From here I see that we currently have average temperature of 14.7 Deg C.

How comes we are under the Greenhouse and Albedo limit?

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/03/2015 6:55 PM

Are you suggesting that Albedo and atmospheric composition have little effect on equilibrium temperature or that mankind has little effect on Albedo and atmospheric composition? Or perhaps both?

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/04/2015 12:48 AM

No I suggest to have our numbers straight before we make assumptions.

I given you the numbers that are out there. I have my idea what they mean. You should have yours.

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#22
In reply to #17

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/03/2015 7:26 PM

"Nothing of this is true. Nothing."

Climate trolls rate right up there with flat earthers and birthers.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/summary-info/global/201509 ---- "

  • The year-to-date temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.53°F (0.85°C) above the 20th century average. This was the highest for January-September in the 1880-2015 record, surpassing the previous record set in 2014 by 0.19°F (0.12°C).
  • The year-to-date globally-averaged land surface temperature was also the highest for January-September in the 1880-2015 record at 2.32°F (1.29°C) above the 20th century average. This value surpassed the previous record of 2007 by 0.31°F (0.17°C).
  • The year-to-date globally-averaged sea surface temperature was 1.24°F (0.69°C) above the 20thcentury average and the highest for January-September in the 1880-2015 record. This value surpassed the previous record of 2010 by +0.11°F (+0.06°C).

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v436/n7051/full/nature03906.html

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/impacts/causes-of-sea-level-rise.html#.VjlMU7erSM8

-----------"Remember after Katrina it was said there will be more frequent hurricanes to come" ---------

The Gulf of Mexico is a very small part of a very big picture.

This is no longer a scientific debate - it is a political one.

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/04/2015 12:54 AM

It would be scientific if you added the absolute number of the global average temperature. And then have a look how this number changed over the years.

I said it in another thread the Global Average Temperature assumed to be the affect of Albedo and Greenhouse gasses is 15 degC.

Currently the temperature Global Average is said to be 14.7 Deg C.

The point that you have that the whole thing is a political debate is correct!

There is not proper science behind this.

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#25
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Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/04/2015 1:13 PM

---------------"It would be scientific if you added the absolute number of the global average temperature. And then have a look how this number changed over the years."--------------

My confidence is very high that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has a handle on that "absolute number."

  • "The year-to-date temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.53°F (0.85°C) above the 20th century average. This was the highest for January-September in the 1880-2015 record, surpassing the previous record set in 2014 by 0.19°F (0.12°C)." ---- http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/summary-info/global/201509

Here are some "absolute numbers" for you.

http://climate.nasa.gov/

My comment - It is probable that the Antarctic ice surface area increase that many of the paid and unpaid climate trolls refer to is due to the change in salinity as the surrounding waters are diluted by the MASSIVE input of fresh water as total Antarctic Ice Mass decreases. Which by the way actually moderates increasing atmospheric temperature because of the heats of fusion and vaporization of water.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/04/2015 7:43 PM

Its moot to discuss this further with you. These statements are deviations that refer to an absolute temperature.

If they say the albedo and green house effect makes the temperature average on Earth 15 deg C and as I pointed out they currently report 14.7 deg C, then it means we are too cold to what it should be from their own calculations.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/04/2015 11:06 PM

"Its moot to discuss this further with you." - I agree.

Atmospheric composition and Albedo are the two most significant variables in determining the average temperature of the biosphere given constant solar input. Mankind impacts both of those variables.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/05/2015 2:21 AM

True we are not going unnoticed on this world. Its just a question of how much it is or how much we want it to be!

"average temperature of the biosphere" You are using terms indiscriminately and making assumptions "given constant solar input" it makes me cringe.

As it seems this is turning into a religious discussion I better stop now.

Stay well!

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#30
In reply to #25

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

11/05/2015 6:58 AM

What were the average temperatures at the North and South Poles from 1880 to 1915? How about Africa from 1880 to 1995? Do you really trust Lord Greystoke and Dr Livingstone's data? I also imagine the data from USSR and China is somewhat suspect for much of the early and mid 20th century. I chose 1995 as that was the launch of satellites that were able to monitor surface temperature. There are far too many variables, both the ones we know of and those we have yet to discover, to make any rational prediction. For example can you take data from 1920 to 1950, crunch it and get today's patterns? Or the Michael Crichton test, take today's data from 1995 to present, run it backwards, and see if it matches the 20's to 40's.

And yes Science, if it indeed was ever present walked left the stage yrs ago, it is political. CARIBCOM the local group that influences all things here is asking for reimbursement from the first world, because of rising sea levels. My take is the sea level is rising because people are fatter and more of 'em, just like the water raises in a bathtub when you get in.

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#5

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/29/2015 1:20 PM

It's much better to give it to the trees and plants for their food.

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#7
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Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/29/2015 4:16 PM
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#16
In reply to #5

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/31/2015 12:06 PM

Problem is that all the excess CO2 we, as humans, are pumping into the atmosphere today took millions of years to be absorbed into the earth, converted into the "refined" products that get burned today, in the relative blink of a geologic eye.

The absorption medium available today cannot possibly keep up with the CO2 being released into the atmosphere.

The outcome is TBD.

The short term implications can be seen in the impact on ocean fish production, melting glaciers and the shifting of plant and animal life as a result of rising climatic temperatures.

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#8

Re: Using captured CO2 as chemical feedstock

10/30/2015 1:39 AM

Plant more corn!

Re-Forestation!

Don't be dump about what CO2 does.

But then if it takes more energy to turn something around from its current state you have to think about where the energy comes from to do what you are doing.

Maybe burn more coal. Try solar. Are we really that desperate to get rid of CO2?

Is stop breathing recommended?

There is too much money behind this fantastic idea!

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#12

Re: Using Captured CO2 as Chemical Feedstock

10/30/2015 9:34 PM

Promise! These will be my last mug ever-these are suppose to be plant food but, we'll get to the plants later !!!

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Using Captured CO2 as Chemical Feedstock

10/31/2015 8:09 AM

That is where you are misinformed. You are looking at the most efficient chemical laboratory ever designed. It is able to process at a minimum of 15 liters of ale/day into urine, sweat, fat, and CO2. This in turn can provide vital nutrients to the surrounding bushes, fire plugs and when residing in San Francisco, Light Poles. 10th Grade Chemistry.

BTW thanks for the pix, it ruined my morning coffee. I'll respond with a suitable picture of one the local whales, in a thong.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Using Captured CO2 as Chemical Feedstock

10/31/2015 9:12 AM

Those light sparkling bubbles were created by CO2 and it makes beer and soda taste smoothly tongue biting good when served cooled. Do you feel that?

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#18

Re: Using Captured CO2 as Chemical Feedstock

11/02/2015 4:23 AM

A lot of mined limestone (calcium carbonate) is kilned to drive off CO2 to produce quicklime and slaked lime (calcium hydroxide). Used in agriculture and eg caustic soda production. If you already have calcium hydroxide I don't see why you would turn it into calcium carbonate. Maybe there's enough demand for calcium carbonate to make sodium carbonate (soda ash) by the Solvay process.

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