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Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/29/2015 11:23 AM

Dear Sir(s)

Please let me ask a quetion " how to calculating setting current in thermal overload relay according to IEC". Thank you in advance.

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#1

Re: setting current in thermal overload relay

11/29/2015 11:51 AM

Consult the applicable NEMA or IEC documents.

Look for trip curves.

Don't take short cuts, do the job properly by getting the applicable specifications.

Factories may burn when you get it wrong.

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#2

Re: setting current in thermal overload relay

11/29/2015 12:26 PM

..."Standard tripping classes are 10 A, 10, 20, 30. The tripping class indicates according to IEC 60947-4-1 the maximum tripping time in seconds under specified conditions of test at 7.2 times the setting current and specifics tripping and non tripping times for 1.5 and 7.2 times the setting current."...

https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/ABB/ThermalOverloadRelays.pdf

https://library.e.abb.com/public/a9cd1c3f07dc1870852573a300738595/1SXU106043B0201.pdf

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#3

Re: setting current in thermal overload relay

11/29/2015 1:49 PM

Study the directions that come with the overload relay. The selection is not done entirely by calculation, nor is there necessarily any single formula.

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#4

Re: setting current in thermal overload relay

11/29/2015 3:34 PM

There is no hard and fast rule. The actual setting will depend on the type of overload protection (bimetallic or electronic), the intended duty cycle of the motor, starting load and duration of start, the importance of keeping it in operation even if over heated, the importance of not operating when overheated (explosive environment), whether it is for star/delta operation, etc.

The overload is there to protect the motor from over heating. Motors in rapid intermittent operation such as an indexing machine can rapidly overheat due to the almost constant starting currents and rapid braking (attached disc brakes add to the motor temperature). The heat build up in the motor is more rapid in the windings than in the metal, and the contrast will depend on factors such as on vs off time, ventilation both forced when running and static when not running, etc.

A motor's cooling time constant is considerably longer than its heating one, up to 5 times longer in some cases, and many overloads that measure simply current flow at any instant fail to recognise the actual winding temperatures. Their cool off time is generally much shorter than that of the motor and most can be reset in less than a minute after tripping, while the windings may still be over temperature. Winding embedded cutouts provide good protection as they won't reset until the motor has cooled sufficiently, and many good quality "two body" electronic units can be set to mimic the cooling period of the motor under various conditions.

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#5

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/29/2015 6:26 PM

You set it to the full load current on the maker's rating plate attached to it, if you've got an ounce of sense between your ears. If you haven't, then you take the serial number and the manufacturer's phone number down on a bit of paper, and write down the correct setting on the paper at the end of the call. It ain't rocket science, Mildred!

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/29/2015 6:59 PM

Not quite that simple. There may be adjustments if ambient temperature at the motor differs widely from that at the overload relay, for service factor, and possibly other reasons.

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#7

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/29/2015 11:57 PM

It seems that if you are setting a thermal overload relay the temperature should be your concern. An electric motors current causes heating of the windings and if the motor is loaded intermittently the current can be quite high without the temperature becoming excessive.

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#8

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/30/2015 2:28 AM

IEC Relays are calibrated as per 60947-4. The setting dial/knob/lever is marked as per the rated current that the relay will carry indefinitely. When it is set to some current,(a) it will not trip for 1.05 times the set current for 2 hours and (b) it will trip for sure at 1.2 times the set current within 2 hours. How quickly it will trip on locked rotor and other overloads is decided by its class, 10 / 10A / 20 / 30 as someone else has already mentioned. So you need to set the dial at the rated current of the motor, so that it is properly protected.

However, when star-delta starting is involved, the relay is often wired within the delta. So, the current through it will be phase current and it has to be set to In /√3 .

This is all theoretical. One reality is that the actual motor current will be slightly different from a theoretical value. So you need to actually measure the current drawn by the motor and then set the relay.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/30/2015 11:32 AM

setting the dial at 1 times or 1,15 times the rate current of the motor?

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

12/01/2015 10:16 AM

For IEC relays, you set it at the rated current of the motor. (The currents is probably given on the motor nameplate, but it is better that you actually measure the current sice there may be a slight varion from the nameplate data). As per IEC, the relay (a) must NOT trip for 2 hours at 1.05 x set current and (b) MUST trip within 2 hours at 1.20 x set current.

(i did give this comment earlier in the day, but was surprised that it wasn't appearing. Strange. Must be my mistake)

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

12/01/2015 12:30 PM

Kvsridhar, I respect your experience and knowledge imparted on this site, and I consider you as being even better than myself when it comes to issues on motor control and component design.

But I respectfully disagree with the part of your answer espousing setting of an OL relay based on a measured value. Unless you have a dynamometer available to put exactly 100% of rated load on that motor, you are going to end up setting the OL to the LOAD current, not the motor RATED current. There are two problems I have with this concept.

1. If, by chance, the LOAD demands more current than the motor is CAPABLE of, you have just set up your motor for self destruction. Although we can ASSume that a reasonable person would be smart enough to not adjust the relay to a value OVER that on the nameplate, my experience in this industry tells me that my use of capitalization in the word "assume" is based on reality.

2. If we get past that and the user sets the current level to a value BELOW the motor nameplate FLC, then essentially they are "wasting" capacity in that motor. While not inherently dangerous to the motor in and of itself, again, my experience has taught me that this rarely ends well. It is not the fact of "nuisance" tripping being harmful to he motor, it is the human response to nuisance tripping tht leads to danger. People tend to get annoyed when overload relays trip. Untrained or uncaring operators will, given the opportunity, "make the problem go away" in a manner that presents the least amount of effort. If you have an adjustment dial, this results in them turning it up to cease that annoying trip. Eventually, they turn it up to the point of allowing the motor to fail. Yes, this SHOULD be preventable through proper traoning, but that is going by the wayside more and more now as owners want the lowest operating cost they can get. And yes, it could happen at any time, but if you set the relay for the stated CAPACITY of the MOTOR, not the measured load, you significantly reduce the likelihood of nuisance tripping. This is especially important in areas with wide voltage floctuations. If you set the OL based on a measured value when voltage is perfect, then the voltage drops a little, it triggers that nuisance trip scenario.

When a motor manufacturer puts the Full Load Current on the nameplate, it is Zsupposed to be a value they determined by connecting that motor to a dyno tester and measuring the current at 100% rated mechanical loading. If you do not trust that value, find another motor supplier.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

12/01/2015 9:12 PM

You are quite right as always. Your experience is far more comprehensive than mine, and i have learnt quite a lot from you.

i must qualify that my comment was referring to the un-organised sector in India. These guys make motors suited to the horrible voltage conditions prevalent in the agricultural market. Some of these motors are quite good, and do their job adequately. Obviously, the current drawn is considerably more than normal due to low voltage. Since the farmer is some distance away from the pump, nuisance tripping is more of a problem than in a factory. Hence the local electrician sets the relay to such a current that eliminates frequent tripping. This is an application which, while very large in its market size, gives a skewed picture.

You are quite right in recommending setting the relay as per the nameplate value. Good manufacturers will ensure the correctness of the nameplate data.

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#9

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/30/2015 9:22 AM

Overload relay settings are determined by equipment design specifications.

1. Winding insulation class and allowed temperature rise rating.

2. Equipment maximum and/or "locked-rotor" current rating.

3. Equipment Service Factor.

4. Equipment ambient operating conditions. (Ambient temperature, number of full load starts within a defined time period, ambient humidity.)

A good place to start is by obtaining the equipment default protection parameters and guidance from the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) service department or the provided technical Installation & Operations Manual (IOM).

After the equipment is put into operation it is a good idea to monitor the temperature for several operation cycles to determine if the settings will provide adequate protection and/or if the equipment design meets the application requirements.

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#11

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/30/2015 1:37 PM

It's not complicated, as already expressed earlier.

1. READ the motor nameplate. The OL relay is there to protect THAT motor. THAT motor has ALREADY been designed by the motor mfr. to handle the current as denoted on the NAMEPLATE of THAT motor. Nothing else matters.

2. RTFM (Read the Factory Manual) of the OL relay. EVERY OL relay mfr approaches the design philosophy slightly differently, within the standards they are addressing. You CANNOT generalize ANYTHING about how an individual product is configured, but the MANUAL for that product MUST tell you what you need to know to adjust it for THAT motor in THAT application.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/30/2015 2:21 PM

Factory? Ummm... Good grammatical word substitution!

I just the other day witnessed another excellent example of grammatical politically correct word substitution in a project meeting.

A manager made an obscene statement about a certain group's lack of progress and methods used to accomplish their assigned goals.

The "team leader" after several unsuccessful attempts to get the manager to understand the root-cause of the delay finally looked directly at the man and said; "You need to compact your feces if you want this project to be a success."

The manager stopped talking, looked very puzzled, then stated; "This meeting is adjourned until further notice." then got up and walked out.

After he left the whole room burst out in laughter.

Two hours later the team leader in question was called in for a visit with an HR representative and the manager who then asked; "Did you just tell me in the project meeting that I need to get my Sh*# together?"

The team leader said; "No, I would never do that. I would not use those uncouth words when talking to another human being."

At that point the HR rep intervened and told the team leader to please leave the room so that she could have a discussion with the manager in private.

So far the team leader has not heard any repercussions other than the HR witnessed manager's apology for using improper language in the presence of an employee.

With the battle over for now, time will tell how the war turns out.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/30/2015 5:16 PM

I work in a very "inclusive environment" where language is parsed to the nth degree and anything that can even be INFERRED as denoting something offensive is verbotten. I used the acronym "RTFM" last year in an open meeting and was called to the carpet by HR the next day. Lucky for me, a co-worker who was in the meeting took me aside and warned me that it was going to happen, then gave me that "version" of what the F stood for. I stuck to my guns with HR and they could not do anything about it.

About 10 years ago (at another company) I did a presentation on motor construction and used the term "peckerhead" to describe a motor connection box, a term used very extensively here in the US. I got called in to HR on that too and when I explained that it was a common term that had nothing to do with what people thought it did, they challenged me to prove it.

Turns out, it apparently IS exactly what people think it is! I had to remove it from all of my PowerPoint presentations...

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Setting Current in Thermal Overload Relay

11/30/2015 6:45 PM

They look really painful when remounted in the incorrect orientation so that the sides of the box aren't parallel....

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