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Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 2:50 AM

we are planning to fabricate main bus bar panel taking power from synchronizing panels my question in installing multi bus bars it recommend to make partition between them or collect them togother and please guide me to good standard.

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#1

Re: busbar fabrication

12/18/2015 3:47 AM
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#2

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 9:28 AM

Separate them, a fault on one set of bars won't affect the other.

What voltage are the busbars?

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/19/2015 4:13 AM

The voltage is 400 volts 50 Hz.

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#3

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 9:45 AM

Installing the bus bars in the same duct is acceptable but there is a minimum spacing distance required between each of the bus bars and also from the bus bar to any conductive surface.

If the system is three (3) phase and the bus bars are put into three (3) separate metal ducts there is a high probability that the ducts will experience excessive heating due to induced current.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 12:47 PM

Properly designed segregated bus systems are usually used between large generators and their step-up transformers, and are engineered to minimize the problems/losses from induced circulating/eddy currents.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 2:47 PM

Yes I have inspected, worked on, and tested Isophase systems at large generation stations however the OP does not appear to be talking about such an application.

To me it sounds like they are talking about an MCC or other switchgear which is quite different.

Hopefully they are knowledgeable of the restrictions and guidelines that apply to the installation.

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#8
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Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 3:20 PM

If they are not aware of the guidelines, well we needed one more Darwin award for this year.

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#5

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 1:57 PM

Just bolt all of the bus bars together with one solid stainless steel bolt and nut. This will cause the safest operation because circuit protection relays/breakers will immediately trip upon attempting to energize the circuit. This will quickly identify the competent and incompetent designers of this job.

In short, by asking this question you have demonstrated that you are not competent to perform this job. Don't even try. The life you kill may not be your own.

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#6

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/18/2015 1:58 PM

Here is a good place to start your education. You can get this from the IEEE

Paired-Phase Bus Bars for Large Polyphase Currents

Fisher, Lawrence E.; Frank, Robert L.

American Institute of Electrical Engineers, Transactions of the Year: 1943, Volume: 62, Issue: 2 Pages: 71 - 77, DOI: 10.1109/T-AIEE.1943.5058671

Good luck with your quest.

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#10

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/19/2015 6:33 AM

You have not provided enough information for us to give you good advice. All busbar design is based on five factors; the cost, the voltage, the amount of current the busbars are required to handle, the amount of temperature that the system can dissipate, and the forces that would be generated in the event of a fault.

The voltage is the least significant. It determines the amount of creepage distance between the separate phases (the length of the path between two phases that the current would have to take if it followed the shortest route along the insulation) and is one factor in determining the short circuit forces.

The current capacity for low current systems is determined by the size of the copper/aluminum used. Usually flat bars l or multiple sets of flat bars lll are used. For higher current applications the surface effect (current only flows along the skin layer of the conductor) becomes important. If there is no current flowing along the center of the copper why have a center. So hollow tubes and sections like <> and [] are used.

Heat dissipation is a whole subject in itself and there are many factors that will influence it. These include (not a complete list): ambient temperature; the bar material (copper can stand more heating than aluminum); the configuration of the bars ( l, lll, O, <>, [] ); the orientation of the bars (phases laid in the horizontal plain dissipate more heat than phases in the vertical plain and vertical runs of bars are different again, but flat bars of any one phase should always be vertical if possible); the type of enclosure and how constricted the airflow around the bars is (forced ventilation can be used but I don't recommend this as if it fails the heat build up can cause serious damage); the length of the run (needed to determine total resistance, voltage drop and is a major consideration in calculating short circuit forces); non-segregated, segregated phase or isolated phase; the standard that the panel is constructed to (Varies in different parts of the world, you should always build to local standards unless the contract specifies otherwise).

Short circuit forces. Like conductors repel each other. In the case of a short circuit all the conductors are carrying current in the same phase for a short time until the breakers isolate the circuit. Choice of breaker determines how long that will take and so the overall power. How far apart the conductors are (inverse square law), the square of the current, the length of the run, any intervening material (segregated or isolated phase barriers) determines the size of the force. The force acts in the form of a massive short term impulse. If the insulator mountings are not strong enough to resist this impulse the system destroys itself.

Cost. You will always be asked to keep costs to a minimum but cutting corners is not cost effective in this instance. Non segregated is cheaper than segregated which is cheaper than isolated. Some hints. Use modular busbar/insulator packages for smaller systems, the current capacity and force calculations are already done and proven in prior applications. Use the minimum IP rating compatible with safety as this will give a greater air flow. Mount phases horizontally rather than vertically where possible. As you can see from above the task you are undertaking is formidable. Buying in from an established supplier may be slightly more expensive but it reduces risk considerably. Building it yourself, if you don't get it right first time the costs will spiral out of control. If you a re not fully confident this needs to be pointed out to management before as decision is made to proceed.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/19/2015 9:02 AM

Great Answer!

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#11

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/19/2015 7:34 AM

Who are "WE"?

Is there a qualified electrical engineer in this group of "WE"?

If there is,ask him or her the questions.

If not,you(We) should not even consider doing something so far out of your depth as

to present a potentially dangerous and even fatal condition to yourself or others,not

to mention equipment damage.

I will provide consultation, but not for free,and I will need full details and

specifications of the project,country of project location,including CAD Drawings.

A personal site visit may be required,and all expenses must be born by your

company,including travel,lodging,car rental,plus my usual fee,which depends on

country and currency exchange rate.

You really did not expect to get real professional help for free did you?

The question is so simple I would let my chauffeur answer it,but I gave her month off

for Christmas and New Year.

Good Luck!

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#13

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/19/2015 12:02 PM
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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/19/2015 12:14 PM

But that will require effort, time and comprehension by the OP. If they could do this they would have presented us a better question that showed some understanding (and respect for the hazards) of power distribution design.

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#15

Re: Busbar Fabrication

12/19/2015 4:25 PM

Surely the facility has earlier designs that can be cloned and adapted?

Sheesh!

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