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Current Reading Between VFD Line Side and Loadside

01/10/2016 5:32 PM

I am encountering a problem with our material supply fan which is keep on tripping 2-3 times a day. we can't just shut it down just for try and error system as the whole production will be affected unless we are 100% sure what was the real problem and do it one time... here is it;

Motor size: 12.5kW, Inverter cap: 15 kW, circuit breaker: 20-25 ampps

Checking readings:

Voltage: L1-L2= 432, L1-L3= 428, L2-L3=441

Line side current reading: (from breaker to inverter)

L1= .7 amps

L2= 11.7 amps

L3= 12.7 amps

Load side current reading; (Inverter to motor)

L1= 11.0 amps

L2= 10.3 amps

L3- 10.4 amps

I would say firstly the inverter was faulty. but I need second opinion please, anything could be wrong more?

Thanks

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#1

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 5:51 PM

First: What is tripping? The inverter drive? If so, what's the fault message? There aren't many inverter drives on the market any longer that don't have a fault record.

Second: Unless you have a VERY sophisticated meter, reading anything related to a VFD is pointless, you are not going to get accurate readings.

That said, the 0.7A reading on L1 is still troubling if there is really voltage on the terminals. I would suspect that you are reading by touching the wires, not the drive terminals, and you have a loose input terminal on L1 or a broken conductor inside of the drive between the L1 terminal and the diode bridge rectifier. That would cause all of the current to go through L2 and L3, which would increase by the sq. rt. of 3 on those two terminals and would be over heating the diode bridge.

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 6:54 PM

Hi Jraef, thanks for a quick response, it was the magnetic contactor. as when found tripped they just push the button to be ON, there was a time it was from the breaker.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 7:09 PM

The breaker is undersized, which means the wiring is also. Have a qualified Electrician sort it out.

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#10
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Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/11/2016 5:10 AM

If he has O/Ls on the contactor it will trip on imbalance. Shoving a bigger breaker in isn't the answer.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/11/2016 6:28 AM

Correct.

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#2

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 5:55 PM

<...tripping...opinion...>

Could the forum please have the original poster's opinion on the error code that the inverter is displaying, then?

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 11:42 PM

PWslack,

Thanks, the inverter doesn't show any code. I forget to include on my original post. The history was as per my electrician the original motor was 7.5kW only but when the production add more carding unit the air velocity must be increase to increase the cotton material supply to the units. however few months ago when they replaced the motor from 7.5 kW to 12.6 kW they didn't replace the breaker to 50A.. I considered it was wrong and will be replaced once we replace the inverter. I am wondering why the current reading of line side L1 was only .7amps on that can I conclude that the inverter was the fault triggering the breaker to tripped of or there something wrong besides this?

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#13
In reply to #8

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/11/2016 6:32 AM

The whole installation is wrong. Have it redesigned and install it all correctly this time. The trip is doing its job of maintaining the facility's popularity with its fire insurance company.

Upgrading the motor without doing anything else was the cause of the problem. If the inverter and the wiring have survived the experience then write it down to luck.

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/12/2016 12:16 PM

"The trip is doing its job of maintaining the facility's popularity with its fire insurance company."

Very well said, I might like to borrow that phrase sometime, if I may.

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#17
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Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/14/2016 8:38 AM

There is no copyright on it. Feel free to do so.

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#3

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 6:29 PM

A 12.5kW motor at 440V ought to have a FLC of around 23A, and the CB should be around 50A. Something doesn't compute here.

If the drive is tripping, there ought be a fault message or code. Or is it the CB that is tripping?

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#4
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Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 6:51 PM

<...If the drive is tripping, there ought be a fault message or code. Or is it the CB that is tripping?...>

The Original Poster doesn't say.

<...the CB should be around 50A...>

In that case it is the Original Poster's installation that is wrong, and a local qualified Electrician needs to sort it out using local wiring codes.

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#9
In reply to #3

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/10/2016 11:44 PM

Very correct Tornado, anyway we will replace it soon same time we replace the inverter and the wire size will do as well. No fault message displayed on inverter.

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Current reading between VFD line side and loadside

01/11/2016 6:29 AM

Then it is useless, and may as well be isolated until it is corrected.

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#7

Re: Current Reading Between VFD Line Side and Loadside

01/10/2016 9:28 PM

0.7A line surely show unbalanced supply.First isolate the problem at line side. what type of drive are using? Quite cheap type, if it does not features error/fault log? Almost all drives, current, is equipped with diagnostics now.

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#14

Re: Current Reading Between VFD Line Side and Loadside

01/11/2016 6:18 PM

"Contactors" don't have anything that would trip, so we can ASSume (because you didn't say) that this is a STARTER, which is a contactor + an overload relay, and it is the overload relay that is tripping, which drops out the contactor. In that case, it has nothing to do with the drive.

Now the 0.7A current reading makes more sense. MOST LIKELY, because none of us are there, what is happening is that one pole of your contactor has burned or failed open in some way. So the current through the starter is single phase. The VFD doesn't actually care, because it will manufacture 3 phases going to the mot0or from the DC that it creates from the (now) single phase AC source. So other than the input current being 173% higher on those 2 phases than it should be, the VFD is not seeing anything to trip on, at least not yet.

But before that might happen, the OVERLOAD relay is reacting to the single phase condition by tripping early. IEC overload relays have an ability to sense a single phase condition and react to it by biasing the overload trip point down. So the current is increasing to 173% of normal, and at the same time, the OL relay is lowering it's trip threshold so it turns the contactor off. If it were a Solid State OL relay, it would likely reacting immediately, but my guess is that it's an old fashioned bi-metallic OL relay that takes a while to react.

Also, having a contactor AHEAD of a VFD is not a great idea anyway and even if you need it for some perceived safety issue (there are better ways to accomplish that), there is ZERO reason to have an overload relay associated with it. The VFD is now the OL relay for the motor, all you need for the VFD is basic short circuit protection.

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#15

Re: Current Reading Between VFD Line Side and Loadside

01/12/2016 12:31 AM

What is the output voltage?

Power in is approx power out.

I agree with Raef - look for single phasing input.

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#18

Re: Current Reading Between VFD Line Side and Loadside

01/15/2016 12:51 PM

By the way, if your contactor is between the power supply (substation) and the VFD, you have two other problems.

First, the VFD manufacturer is probably not happy with you turning it on and off this way. The problem comes from all of the energy rush to charge up the DC power section from which the output transistors draw energy for your motor. This rapid build up of energy into the DC section will exceed your contactor ratings, but because it is over quickly enough, the thermal overload section (a separate module) may not heat up enough to trip. Initially this may work, but the relay points (contacts) will degrade rapidly.

Second, each time you switch the power on and off, you are placing a large capacitor bank in parallel with the substation windings. So, you have a nice big L-C tank circuit which can bounce very large currents through the contacts causing them to pit and vaporize little by little until you start blowing fuses or breakers.

Generally, it is best to leave the power to the VFD most of the time. It should not be turned off and on more than twice per day. Otherwise, the inrush currents are going to make you spend some serious money.

If you already have a burnt contact (as in the low current for L1) then the arcing that is going on is what is tripping your safety device. The more it arcs, the more it heats up with surge currents.

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