Previous in Forum: Attribution Science   Next in Forum: Another Las Vegas Loser Bites the Dust
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 207

Foolish Pioneers

06/14/2016 5:36 PM

some people prefer to always play it safe. these people rarely achieve greatness. the Pioneer see's the potential problems but refuses to allow the unknown or fear to detour them.at this moment a little 500 lbs. autonomous experiment is going face to face with failure and has no certainty to cross the finish line before joining Davey Jones Locker as so many others have at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean. so why even try?

back in 1927 there wasn't an airplane in existence anywhere that could fly continuously across the open vastness of the mighty Atlantic. a foolhardy young American thought if a plane was set up just right it might make it before crashing into the sea with an empty fuel tank. most of the pundits of the day thought 2 engines were far safer and a single engine increased chances for failure. our pioneer knew the safe bet but he also knew a single engine drank less fuel. this pilot contacted the manufacturer of a plane he felt was best suited for a long range modification. airplanes with wings made of cloth stretched over wooden frames were light but were they rugged enough for the impossible attempt? our pilot believed all unnecessary weight needed to be ditched before any attempt. there would be no dry runs, he would fly as soon as his specially built machine was ready even if that meant leaving a radio for communication out of the design.

In order to maximize fuel capacity and maintain a good CG the final design omitted a windshield! crawling into a cramped cockpit for an anticipated 40+ hour flight in an experimental craft was either insane or ballsy ( you pick)would this pioneer be remembered as a "murderous" fool for crashing such an ill conceived design? history now tells us what kind of stuff it takes to make a hero

<<<< your accommodations

no radar reflector or fluorescent paint or even a spinning light to catch the attention of any jokers sailing out there. Was this man a fool or a Pioneering hero? personally I admire him and am in awe of his accomplishments to this day. after leaving New York he headed East and burned his 450 gallons of fuel and cruised into History

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 335
#1

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/14/2016 8:42 PM

This is a test of how much man is being able to trust their instruments when the accuracy of the said instruments is +/-10% span(how good is that with visuals?). Maybe the design is suitable for handicap.

__________________
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/14/2016 9:16 PM

Without pioneers, we'd still be stuck on the east coast.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/15/2016 6:59 AM
__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/15/2016 12:03 PM

Wrong coast.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - EE from the the Wilds of Pa.

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2603
Good Answers: 63
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/15/2016 2:27 PM

No! Without pioneers we'd all be serving Her Majesty, or the head of which ever country your ancestors came from. Oh heck, we might be bowing down to Der Fuhrer since USA wouldn't have been here to help stop that little maniac. The buffalo and passenger pigeon would own this land. The Native Americans would still be in far east Asia.

__________________
Remember when reading my post: (-1)^½ m (2)^½
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1746
Good Answers: 87
#13
In reply to #6

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 10:42 AM

More likely we would still be sitting around in trees somewhere in central Africa.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - EE from the the Wilds of Pa.

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2603
Good Answers: 63
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 10:56 AM

Welllll... yes and no. I had to stop somewhere. Go back as far as Arfica and you get a bit of necessity rather than pioneering spirit involved. Early expansion was probably due to starvation and/or thirst as much as curiosity. But you are right that we had some extreme pioneers in BC times. Can you imagine how much moxie it must have taken to go out on an ocean in a canoe sized boat with no idea what was out there? Or cross a mountain chain with no knowledge of world geography? The earliest expansion of humans involved a lot of "well, here we go. We've no idea what is over there, but we'll try it and see." At least Lindy had a good idea of what he was getting into. (pun intended)

__________________
Remember when reading my post: (-1)^½ m (2)^½
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Old Midwest U.S.A.
Posts: 44
Good Answers: 3
#4

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/15/2016 11:41 AM

George Bernard Shaw said: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 55
Good Answers: 3
#7
In reply to #4

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/15/2016 11:25 PM

He wanted Bellanca to build his airplane and wanted an Allison engine . He took what he could get , and this was far from a long shot . He researched this attempt and knew the odds were slightly with him . Still , it took brass _____'s . And that's what's called the pioneering spirit !

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 80
Good Answers: 4
#8

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 12:33 AM

Google John Alcock and Arthur Brown for the first trans-Atlantic flight in 1919

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - EE from the the Wilds of Pa.

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2603
Good Answers: 63
#12
In reply to #8

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 8:35 AM

Is that like "The Crazy World of Arthur Brown"??? I bring you fire. No, no, no - BAD word around an airplane.

__________________
Remember when reading my post: (-1)^½ m (2)^½
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1746
Good Answers: 87
#15
In reply to #12

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 11:05 AM

I see three problems:

They weren't American

They took off from Newfoundland

They landed in Ireland

Obviously it doesn't count.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 249
Good Answers: 4
#9

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 2:33 AM

Crazy thoughts only bring development, and if the invention is good to stand the test of time, it is termed brilliant, otherwise, foolish, ballsy, and such 'endearing' epithets are used.

Tangential thinking is what brings results. Flying was definitely considered a most foolish act, before Man graduated to the excellent flying machines we have today.

Nevil Shute's books bring out the development in Aviation graphically. One could read them. Though fiction, they are based on actual events.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#10

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 7:07 AM

When you are supporting an untenable position changing the focus of your argument is a standard debating tactic, but it only works if your new position can be reasonably linked to your old position. Lindbergh did something historic and pioneering, how relevant his achievement is to Penny and Sam is questionable. He risked his own life, they have not. On crashing he could have steered his plane away from other potential casualties, they cannot. He did not add 20% to his journey by flying around in circles. He did not fly backwards on purpose or unintentionally. Had he known about the jet stream he could have taken advantage if air currents just as they are taking advantage of sea currents. That would have greatly reduced his risk. At a time before radar was invented a custom radar reflector would be superfluous but silver paint on a stretched doped fabric surface does act as an excellent radar reflector. A lone pilot does not have much time to operate a radio while crashing a plane. The highly reflective silver body of the Spirit of St Louis had no need of high visibility paint. Was his flight ill conceived? Given the death of several pilots who had previously attempted to win the $25,000 prize, yes. It was not murderous but it was probably suicidal. Lindbergh was certainly reckless, he was a barnstormer stunt pilot before he was an airmail pilot prior to crossing the Atlantic. His profile fits the old adage. The only people who try to commit suicide a second time are those who failed at the first attempt.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 207
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/16/2016 7:40 AM

you really are a piece of work, we'll just have to wait till it beaches in Portugal to sum up all the murderous casualties caused by these guys, my bet is you'll be skunked and the total will not exceed zero

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 175
Good Answers: 12
#16

Re: Foolish Pioneers

06/17/2016 12:26 PM

And.....Charles Lindberg did it again in 1944. He flew to the SW Pacific to see what all the buzz was about with the P-38 Lightning twin engine fighter aircraft. By observing the aircraft, the pilots, and studying the flight and engine characteristics, he advised the pilots and groundcrews to change the cruising prop/engine RPMs they used during their missions. He told them they could DOUBLE THE RANGE of the P-38. The pilots and ground crews were skeptical, thinking that Lindberg's advice would lead to damaging the engines, that lowering the RPMs as he suggested would starve the engines of oil/fuel/power/cooling.

Lindberg then flew on missions with the fighter group, to prove he was correct......to the dismay of the fighter group commander and pilots. With Lindberg's advice, the range for the P-38 went from 900 miles total......to 1,800 miles! An engine tear-down after several flights proved Lindberg correct again! No damage to the engines whatsoever!

Lindberg flew on an actual mission in a P-38 and shot down a Japanese Zero.

Extending the range of the P-38 changed the outcome of the war with Japan in the Pacific.....the P-38 was then the fastest, most well armed, best long range/high altitude fighter aircraft of WWII.

Yup. He was ballsy. Not insane.

__________________
Invention is the mother of necessity.......there are always opportunities for improvement!!
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 16 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Doggerel (1); Fredski (1); Gadepalli Subrahmanyam (1); jhhassociates (1); Jpfalt (2); lyn (2); machia0705 (1); Mr. small (1); Phys (3); PWSlack (1); vtbgiraud (1); wolfie62 (1)

Previous in Forum: Attribution Science   Next in Forum: Another Las Vegas Loser Bites the Dust

Advertisement