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Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 12:51 PM

I bought a lapidary saw on Amazon and kept getting a message saying the saw is 220v, will this work in America?

Well, being the dummy I am I didn't realize that China and Australia had a different 220v then America does. I have a 220v/240v plug in, but will it work?

I paid 900 bucks for this thing, so my question is should I send it back or is there a way too make it work?

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#1

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 1:00 PM

It depends, some motors are made to operate on different voltages and Hz...You failed to mention the brand and motor type and model number....and what your voltage and Hz is...what does the operators manual say? You might just need an adapter....

http://www.adaptelec.com/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&products_id=237

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g255055-c120179/Australia:Power.And.Appliances.html

https://www.amazon.com/Lapidary-Grinding-Polishing-Cabochon-Machine/dp/B004XNSAWU/ref=pd_sim_469_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51Ov8X0jjxL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=NCF6FMD525CM1KWJBSGB

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 1:35 PM

The only paperwork that came with it is in Chinese. The motor has no markings, nothing. All I have to go by is it said 220 on the Amazon description. And I kept getting emails from the company asking if it would work in America. The plug looks like the Chinese/Australian plugs I saw when I Googled it.

I'll be cutting rocks into slabs so extra speed would only help I would think.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 2:14 PM

How To Install A 220 volt outlet or Dryer Outlet - AskmeDIY

If you have an electric dryer in your home, look at the receptacle and plug and rewire the plug to match.

It probably looks like this.

Kenmore

Home Depot or any hardware carries these.

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 3:26 PM

This probably doesn't draw more than 10 amps.... I think a 15 amp plug and receptacle would be sufficient...

http://www.adaptelec.com/travel-plug-adapters-c-1/wa18-travel-plug-adapter-for-north-american-nema-615-208240v-15a-socket-p-16.html

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 3:28 PM

agreed, that is over doing it,... but then again... what was the HP.

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 3:44 PM

Probably 3/4hp...

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 2:50 PM

"I'll be cutting rocks into slabs so extra speed would only help I would think."

Not necessarily. Check the recommended RPM of the blades you plan to use.

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#26
In reply to #6

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 9:21 PM

Take a picture of the Chinese writing and have Google translate.

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#30
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Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/25/2016 4:22 PM

This might work, but you might end up with gibberish. Google has a harder time translating technical words than conversational, and it's only half way good with that. Many times the placement of words can change the entire meaning of a sentence. Then there's the cultural differences that creep into the language. I will always say; get an exchange student to translate it. Especially a post-grad.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/25/2016 5:15 PM

你不会知道,直到你尝试过

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#32
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Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/25/2016 5:53 PM
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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/25/2016 6:05 PM

I don't read Chinese, I just write it.

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/26/2016 7:06 AM

I don't read Chinese,

Neither do a lot of people

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/26/2016 7:47 AM

Fewer write it than read it. ;)

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#37
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Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/26/2016 8:12 AM

tell that to the 1 billion + Chinese

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#38
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Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/26/2016 11:04 AM

Literacy rate is lower there than we might think. Simplified Chinese was pushed by Mao in the 50's to promote literacy. Younger (typically 40 and under) Chinese can read in three languages, traditional, simplified, and hometown. Those 20-something and under add English or Spanish (sometimes both or another). Many older Chinese never bother to learn simplified or even traditional, only what words are needed. Some Chinese fought against changing their language, the simplified tends to lose the natural aspect in words.

See also: http://pages.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/chin/SimplifiedCharacters.html

Short sayings that are popular are easy to translate for google. A tech manual, not so much. We have all seen tech manuals that were attempted to be translated into English and were almost unreadable.

My obtuse point is, if you have more than a few sentences, or the project is technical in any way, get a human translator or service. University students come cheap and most would love a little extra cash and time away from campus. Then you won't get a translation that says, "Push moon to quickly exit."

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/26/2016 11:52 AM

They are playing catch-up. China is where we were in the early 1800's. Its just a matter of time.

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#40
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Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/26/2016 12:36 PM

That's an analogy I've used before. I agree completely.

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/27/2016 12:56 AM

Yeah, you are right. Chances are it will be gibberish. Better not attempt it. Once you get gibberish in your computer, it is so hard to get it all out.

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/26/2016 12:07 AM

Exactly.

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#2

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 1:07 PM

More than likely it will work but given their standard is 50 HZ and ours is 60 it may run a bit faster.

The nominal 20 volt difference won't be an issue.

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#3

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 1:10 PM

What is the hertz in China, do they operate @ 60 or is it 50?

And if its was 50hZ as tcmtech said, it may run a little faster (20% faster) as well as put out more HP.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 1:15 PM
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#5
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Re: Chinese Lapidary saw

07/22/2016 1:22 PM

a visit to Home Depot will fix that.

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#7

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 2:10 PM

There may conceivably be an electric shock danger. In a 220V-to-ground system, the neutral wire could also be connected to the frame of whatever device. I don't know if China allows that practice. If the saw is double-insulated, that won't be a problem, but with no motor markings, you can't tell.

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#10

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 3:14 PM

And remember, that extra speed comes at the expense of reduced power.

That means extra heat in your motor.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 3:21 PM

And remember, that extra speed comes at the expense of reduced power.

No...

Horsepower(hp) is proportional to Torque times RPM. Since the motor's torque is not going to change appreciably with an increase in frequency it will now provide 20% more hp.

So... an 8hp motor just got promoted to being a 10hp motor.

Something for almost nothing! What did change is for kW/hr consumption

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 3:22 PM

So which is it?

"And if its was 50hZ as tcmtech said, it may run a little faster (20% faster) as well as put out more HP."

or "that extra speed comes at the expense of reduced power"

My vote from experience is the slightly higher frequency and voltage gives an induction motor more effective power, not less, as well as picking up a slight efficiency gain of 1 - 5
%.

But that's just me.

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#13
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 3:24 PM

I'd go with p911 answer @ #11... but I may be bias.

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#20
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 5:26 PM

I going with JRaef @ #19....because he's never wrong when it comes to things electrical!

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#22
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 6:07 PM

I said I was bias...

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#23
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 7:49 PM

I just burn stuff for a living and when it comes to electric motors fall back on what I was taught and show in college some near 25 years ago.

Back in the old days, we had hands-on demonstrations of motors working characteristics by running them on actual dynamometers while playing with the supply voltages and frequencies.

WhatI recall was the motors we had in our lab worked more favorably on higher voltage 60 Hz. RPM's were more but the torque at the nameplate amp input was usually the same which thusly showed up on the dyno readouts as providing more mechanical power given the same input amps.

But then those weren't no-name no spec Chinese made motors either. Most were units that we or other classes had burned up and rewound as part of lab study work.

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 3:34 PM

Voltage didn't increase.

Doesn't make that much difference either way, I guess

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#17

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 3:37 PM

You guys have been great. I'll just buy a plug that fits my house 220 socket and put that on the motor and cross my fingers.

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#42
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/28/2016 5:13 AM

There goes your 900,-!

Say good bye!

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#19

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 4:15 PM

Torque actually relates directly to the V/Hz ratio. So if the motor is designed for 220V 50Hz, the V/Hz ratio is 4.4. If connected in the U.S. to 240V 60Hz, the V/Hz ratio is 4.0, 90% of design*. The available torque relates at a direct ratio, so at 240V 60Hz, your motor will develope only 90% of full load torque. But worse is that PEAK torque is reduced by the SQUARE of the difference, so your peak torque will be reduced to 81% of normal. Peak torque is used to recover speed from a step change in load, such as beginning to cut a rock in your case. So you will more easily bog down and overload your motor. You might be able to compensate for it by being less aggressive in feeding rocks into the saw, but expect that overall, that motor will not last long.

* NEMA (North American Manufacturer Assoc) motor design specs allow for +-10%, but my experience is that motors made in China rarely follow our specifications.

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#21

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 6:04 PM

This machine may convert AC to DC for motor and accept a range of voltages....In this case the hz won't matter....

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#24

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 7:58 PM

I think I'll just send it back, I found one made in America for the same price and it's 120v. It just isn't worth the hassle. Thanks for all your help.

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#25
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/22/2016 8:15 PM

Probably a wise move.

Good luck.

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#27
In reply to #24

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/23/2016 9:18 AM

I'm interested to know why you didn't look for American made in the first place?

From what you say it sounds like you live in the US and I'm wondering why you would ever buy Chinese electrical equipment from a country that is known for its scams, from a company that doesn't even bother to publish their specs in English, considering the decades old reputation of Chinese for making worthless junk, especially worthless electrical junk?

Not to mention the dangers inherent in that approach.

And good luck getting your money back from a Chinese company that doesn't want to understand English, can't be bothered to publish their specs in English and is asking YOU if their products will work in the US.

Stop being taken for a ride by these con artists, that's all that they are, nothing more.

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#28
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/23/2016 2:42 PM

It's the lure of low pricing on eBay and other "auction" sites. They prey on people who don't know the meaning of the old Latin proverb: "Caveat emptor", which means "let the buyer beware". So this has gone on since the dawn of commerce, and it will continue thusly.

The Internet has made the connection between the scammers and the naive much more efficient and widespread, which has in turn caused an explosion of scammers ready to prey on this new resource. But it sounds as though our OP has learned his lesson, as we all have at one point or another in our lives.

Even as aware of this as I am, I have still fallen prey to a version of this problem, the "oh well, I only need it to work once" concept, meaning I KNOW I am buying junk, but since it only has a limited purpose, I think I can get away with it. So far, I have scored no better than 50% on that risk, meaning half the time, I don't even get the single use I am after, making the purchase a 100% waste. Yet, I've done it more than once. It's like playing poker and having 3 cards to a straight, you keep playing, BELIEVING you will get the other two cards to fill it in. It happens, but not often enough to make it worth doing.

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#29
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/23/2016 5:34 PM

I blame the Walton children for the demise of quality products in America.

The Walmart founder, Sam, bought American whenever he could, paid his employees a decent wage and drove a pickup truck until the day he died.

I have no problem/complaints buying Harbor Freight for home use. (Gas powered tools excepted)

For work, I pay for quality, durability and longevity.

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#43
In reply to #28

Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/28/2016 10:23 AM

That's a good analysis of the ever-present dilemma between price and quality and I do recognize that I'm overly zealous about this compared to most people but I come from an age when things like Zippo lighters and Snap-On tools and Made in America invoked a reverence for quality that every day is being eroded in a race to the bottom of the price pitch.

I recently had the misfortune to be watching one of those financial programs when the CEO of Snap-On came on and was boasting about the number of factories (five) they had in China.

Yes, he was boasting, he was actually boasting about how many Snap-On factories he'd opened in China.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing and hearing.

Maybe he thinks that no one that uses tools watches those programs or maybe he thinks he can convince us with his enthusiasm for building factories in China that make iconic American products that an 'American' product Made in China is just as good as an American product Made in America or maybe he hasn't got an F ing clue that we all know why he's really sold out to the Chinese - money of course, what else could it be.

How he's got no shame to put the words Made in China on a Snap-On tool beats me but I can tell him here and now I will never buy another Snap-On tool, no matter where it's made, after seeing that brazen, boasting display of his personal sell out.

That's not to disrespect the Snap-On tools still made in America, which I am sure are just as good as they ever were, I just don't want to add my money to supporting an asshole that is part of the sell out to China.

I know this is getting a long way off from the OP's point and your own point and I do understand your point about the price/quality dilemma and that I'm swimming against the tide, I realize that, because money is the driver to all this but I just can't condone it.

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#44
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Re: Chinese Lapidary Saw

07/28/2016 9:18 PM

Good decision!

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