Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

Well, for one thing, they should have put the orifice downstream of the filter, lest a single slightly larger particle block the whole system.

Actually I'm not sure where the orifice is. Most days those guys are not all that forthcoming with technical info.

To be honest I get the strong impression many of them are the 'purists' type where 'as built is perfect' even if it's obviously lacking and could now improved on with little effort given today's technology and the average resources most people have.

But the I am of the engineering tinkerer mindset type that see the flaws and potential for improvement in most everything I touch.

Sounds like you're dealing with collectors.....purists that want everything as original as possible....or company rep's that worship their product...In any case I don't think it's a good idea to rely on the oil filter to govern oil pressure...seems like a scheme to sell expensive filters to me...

Yea some definitely are. I don't mind that crowd so much but when they complain about something not being designed right I tend to speak up and explain what I see as being a practical alternative.

One of my buddies is that way with his vehicles and I have to say it looks to be a bewildering world of internal conflict they must live in being his dilemma, since the day I met him 20+ years ago, is that he wants his vehicles to be unique and modernly customized yet stay bone stock to their original design. So which is t? Customized with all modern components or stock? You can't have both in one package?

As most of us here, I don't mind being told I am wrong about something but when told so I do expect some degree of education to be imparted on me which if the information given is nothing but a bunch of nonsensical misunderstandings on their part I tend to fire back.

But what do I know? Maybe if they look long and hard enough they just might find that original stock 1968 AM only Chrysler Imperial radio head unit that came with four channel sound, plays CDs plus has a USB port and MP3 capability!

purists that want everything as original as possible

In my observation, that does happen in the antique auto collecting hobby. But I wasn't aware that it was also in the tractor collecting hobby, since they are not judged as strictly as far as I know. Same with over-the-road-trucks, since semi tractor collectors seem to brag about some of the modifications they do--upgrading to more modern/better components. Of course, in their service life, maybe millions of miles, new engines, trannies, etc are a fact of life.

My game is antique fire apparatus.

Some collectors are indeed purists.

International used to put their logo on every part,including every bolt,nut and ball or roller bearing.

A collector purist will never replace a IH bolt with a hardware store item.

It is hard to find a totally original IH farm tractor,because a lot of the hardware had been replaced by the previous owners.

Yep. I've seen guys looking for the old style IH hydraulic couplers before and saying they got a deal on a set for $50 apiece or some nonsense like that of which I then promptly tell them that in my life I have removed and thrown out enough of those useless incompatible things for scrap filler to fill a 5-gallon bucket.

Which then leads to a darn near screaming fit about how I could do such a thing to which my reply is my tractors still have to work for a living so they need to be compatible with modern implements that use modern couplers and I don't care to waste my time and money using adapters to do it.

To be honest if I dug around in the dirt floor of my shop I know I have at least 3 sets of them laying in the dirt somewhere that came off just one tractor I worked on some years ago. Pretty sure there's probably more hiding in other places too.

As much as I like getting some easy cash I just can't bring myself to feed someone's obsessive fetish that way.

Oh there is definitely a tractor originality snob group out there.

In their world the 6 volt positive ground electrical system was the best and nothing made with 12 volt power was any better. Just don't ask them to go and start their tractors when it's below freezing (forget -20F they goes nuts about the idea of anyone needing a tractor to run in that kind of weather) and don't ask them about starting them when they are hot either. Sure theirs will start then, but not when anyones looking, and even then they have to have a 1000+ CCA battery and 2/0 or heavier cables that are in pristine condition to work fairly well most of the time.

And for oil it has to be exact OEM brand name stuff that perfectly matches the antiquated specs they had back then. None of that fancy shmancy modern goop. It will just ruin an engine you know. (they've seen it happen a million times)

Mostly their thing is to take an old worn out tractor give it a full and highly detailed (and obviously way over priced) restoration inside and out then park it in their own private showroom and never let it move or be seen by anyone again until the day they die and 20 year family fight over who gets to stare at it next ensues because they couldn't find the time to write out a will regarding where their most precious machines will go.

exact OEM brand name stuff

Wow! What would they do with one of my manuals that suggests tallow and graphite for a manual transmission lube! Also some obsolete brand name.

I think the alternative lube back then was crude oil ran though n old sock to take the chunky sandy bits out.

So how exactly did having tallow work being that stuff would literally rot at some point?

When you smell dead animal it was time for a lube change?

Has anyone discussed the possibility of installing an oil pressure regulator?

They have a very basic pressure relief on the system that keep things from going much over 15 PSI.

I'm guessing it's like most engines oil pressure regulators and it just uses a spring loaded relief valve.

"over [there] they apparently [think] I am a big fool who doesn't understand basic english and worse".

(Edited by Lyn to yield understandable basic english)

Just over there?

Yes.

Understanding it and writing it are two different things.

Especially when one has to do constant battle with spell checkers and auto correcting apps that seem hell bent on switching out correctly spelled and used words with incorrect ones for no reason whatsoever.

I've caught three just doing this post. It switched 'when' with 'wheat' even though I spelled 'when' correctly. Same with 'spelled'. That became 'spilled' right before my eyes and 'switching' became 'sweet change" for no reason as well.

I'm suspecting I am not the only one who has this issue given the number of misplaced words I see in other people's posts all over the internet as well.

Also that's largely why the link to that site is not set up correctly. I could not highlight it and set it up. It just would not let me.

You are definitely not the only one who has problems with auto-type features. You'd be amazed (or maybe not) at the amount of illiterate rubbish that turns up on Internet forums because of "smart" "corrections".

I've been trying different spelling and grammar check extensions but everyone of them seems to get to the point they become so buggy that I get sick of trying to work with them and give them the boot.

Right now I am using the Google one and at times it works perfectly then all of a sudden it starts jumping my text all over the place or turning every key I touch into some wildly irrelevant quick key that jumps me to whole different pages or sites for no reason or it decides it will not let me highlight anything for doing cut and copy, linking, spelling or unwanted switched word correction work.

My phone is the worst. I'll type 2 or 3 sentences, then look at the screen and discover a whole different sentence.

Overall the biggest beef some have with me is apparently they don't take kindly to engineering based technical reasoning and rational and find 'big words' offensive.

Not sure how that makes me a bad person but apparently it did.

Typical depth filters will start increasing back pressure as the smallest pores get clogged.

The whole concept of using a filter for pressure regulation leaves a lot to chance.

I started trying to explain that but it got shot apart pretty quickly because 'even a moron knows that the more restrictive the filter the better it's filtering'. which in their world apparently leaves no room for modern low micron count filters that use large pleated cloth surface area designs over small surface area larger micron count packed cotton types.

Personally this was my favorite response I got and I had to read it several times to get past the conflicting context.

"He just doesn't understand plain English Steve. Pressure increase in this system will NOT help with lubing the engine,PERIOD. Opening a hole in the external oil line, like what happens when you put a pleated filter on a bypass system will eventually destroy the engine."

So increasing oil pressure won't help the engine, period. Yet lack of pressure is what causes damage. What? Does that mean the engine is screwed no matter what is done?

What?

Have any of you experts (X=unknown, spert= drip under pressure) even considered a 70 year old engine may have enough wear to reduce oil pressure? Typical oil pumps produce far more pressure and volume than required using a crude spring loaded ball and seat type relief valve. Both gears in pump and balls in relief valves wear out in time. Bypass systems generally use pressure reduced oil to filter. If wear reduces pressure beyond the capacity of the pump you will need to recondition worn parts.

Very informative!

Thank you!

That detailed description of the oil filter system just screams as something that could easily be redone do use a far more effective modern design though, as in spin on and go rather than having to fiddle with dowels and little tubing bits that can plug things up or break off without being noticed until it's too late.

Keep this in mind:

The head has very small return holes,and it is normally supplied with just a trickle of oil.

Excessive flow could result in pumping the pan dry,and putting most of the oil into the valve cover.

This would starve the main bearings and result in failure.

And also remember that the rods are splash-lubricated,and rely on a certain volume of oil in the pan to function properly.

The saving grace of the motor was the air filter.

99 percent of the solid contaminants come in via the intake air.

The VW beetle only had a screen for an oil filter,but an oil bath air filter.

And they had a gear type oil pump,which could have supported a filter.

More pressure is not always better.

"Assuming correct maintenance has been done regularly."

And therein lies the problem. In 70 years the available replacement parts may have been changed,OEM design was obsoleted so the remaining owners are stuck with using what fits, thus making the old design that worked no longer able to function with a newer replacement part.

Personally,I have seen that problem countless times when working on old machinery that was built in the early part of the first half of the last century. I and many people I know have a number of such items in our collections that fit into that description. They are still valued and justifiably useful machines but often times a simple but critical wearable component gives up and a replacement needs to be found yet the last replacement part was made 50+ years ago and that part that cost 25 cents back then that could be found at most any hardware store now take days to track down plus commands $100 dollars or better.

That's the problem I am addressing ,finding OEM parts can be very difficult and expensive due to limited remaining working stock left so that's where the necessity to analyze how the original part was designed and figure out a way to make something modern cheap and easy to acquire work correctly comes in which is the basis and topic of this thread.

How someone designed it back then to work with what was common components of the time has nothing to do with keeping the machine working today when there is high likelihood that many of its critical components have not been manufactured in over half a century and what can be found that's made today that physically fits may not have anywhere near the equivalent let alone correct working permaitiers.

You follow where I am coming from now?

What you say may be true for automobiles,but farm tractors are an exception.

Parts are still readily available for 1940's era Allis Chalmers,Ferguson,(Before Massey Ferguson),Fordson,John Deere,Moline and others.

The tractor parts aftermarket is still a thriving enterprise.

Check out this link:http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/tractor-parts/

However,one must do what one must do,and whatever it takes to get the job done is fine by me.

A side note:

Some of the tractors were way ahead of their time.

Look at this Minneapolis Moline UDLX from 1938.

It had windows that opened,a cigarette lighter,a second seat,glove box,rear doors, gauges,and a top speed of 45 MPH.

It was the first tractor with an enclosed cab.

The most recent one I recall in service was used by the Postal Service in Canada in the 1980's.

The motor still ran,but the sheet metal needed a lot of work.

I dont know if this is it or not,but it looks like it could be.

One sold at auction for $145,000 in Indiana.

Sort of true on the old tractors on the common service items for the ones that managed to acquire a large following but unfortunately with many makes and models some of those items are getting pretty hard to come by or what is out there is either made wrong or made so poorly it's an insult.

That's where the necessity to redesign to use more easily acquired modern replacements comes in which is what I am talking about.

Take our old N series Ford tractor for example. They were not the best designed machine by any standards, even back then, but they have a huge following and thus a huge aftermarket parts supply chain in place for every component of the tractor.

However go to my old Allis Chalmers WM crawler tractor. Oil filter and spark plugs are about the only common items you will easily find for it. Magneto kits and radiators can be found but not so cheap and if you get into individual engine components you're SOL on anything but the standard basics for a rebuild. No new aftermarket manufactured heads, no crankshafts, o timing gears or other items.

And once you get beyond that into specialized components that were for the most part specific to that exact model or only one or two others only, like the steering and drive clutch packs,you're screwed unless you can modify modern components and fabricate your own replacement parts to rebuild the original ones or feel like spending way more money than the machines worth for the rare OEM parts some collector has sitting on a shelf somewhere.

FWIW, to get my crawler backup to good running condition it will likely take around $1500 - $2000 just for engine related parts and work alone and the big clutch sets are going to have to be prefabricated Vs bought new and I will be surprised if I get out of those and their related rear drive parts for under $1000 at that.

I am sure you are a member of Yesterday's tractors.

If not,I recommend joining.

They are a bunch of great guys that have hundreds of years combined experience that will bend over backwards to help someone.

I had the unique learning experience of working part time for an Allis Chambers dealer as a teenager,and learned a lot.

The old guy that rebuilt the motors took me under his wing and taught me a lot.

The "Yellow Iron" as they call heavy equipment now,is a specialized field,and the same part will cost 4 times as much,and the after market parts for them is very small,so a used or rebuilt parts is sometimes your only recourse.

Sometimes,the parts look unique but are not really.

I needed a drum brake for a 1948 Alice C.

They were available,but it looked very familiar,and turned out a golf cart brake drum fit perfectly.Go figure!

If you could obtain the original specs for the parts,you may find other parts that will work.

I have done this on ball bearings by measuring the ID/OD and looking up by specs.

If I run across any info on your WM,I will let you know.

Found this:http://i.ebayimg.com/06/!Bj+0vd!!mk~$(KGrHqYOKiQEtN4Z4DP4BLV)S!8ghw~~_35.JPG

Here is another link that may help;

http://www.antiquecrawlerparts.com/contact_us.html

Good Luck!

"I am sure you are a member of Yesterday's tractors.

If not,I recommend joining."

Not yet but considering also. I tend to hang out on the Red Power forum being most of our equipment is IH based.

They like to bicker and fight as much as we do here and as with here, many of them can back up their views with some pretty solid reasoning and reference but not hold a grudge if you can show them something new that's practical in keeping an old machine running for cheap.

My kinda people I guess.

Yea I have the full manual for my old AC WM as well. I pick it up and read through it every now and then when looking around on line for parts. I'd really like to get it running but the sticker shock on doing it keeps it as a pretty low priority.

I'm figuring one of these years I will pull the head and get that redone first. Then new sleeves and pistons, then radiator and electrical with the clutches somewhere in between being I have a old school local brake shop that says that if it used brake or clutch bands or disks they can rebuild or replicate it! (might not be cheap though but they say they would take it as a project.)

limited remaining working stock left

That's my problem, where limited really means "there ain't none." It's a 1943 Chrysler Industrial engine; the same bypass filter was used by Dodge and Plymouth. It was a sealed canister--both filter and housing were replaced.

Un off topic yourself and please tell us more!

More? I checked with a Dodge and Plymouth website, I forget the name, to see if I could get any help. The only help was to replace it with something totally different. I now have an as-yet-uninstalled kit which will still be bypass, but with a replaceable filter element. My feeble excuse for not doing it is: it's low hours, maybe maybe 3 or 4 per year--none this year (but really is a motivational crisis.) The filter assembly is a sealed steel housing with the filter inside and small connections top and bottom.

You remind me of a old west B movie character.

The kid grows upon a small ranch and the only thing he craves is to get off that little patch of dirt and go into town with his two six-guns strapped on and make a name for himself with his pistols.

So, off he goes his, mother begging him to leave his guns at home.

"Oh Ma. I'll be fine. I can take care of myself, your little Billy Joe is a man now".

He meets tcmtech there. tcmtech ain't much to look at with a single Colt on his side and Billy Joe decides to insult the grizzled old timer and goad him into a gunfight.

Billy Joe goes home in a pine box, tcmtech orders another shot of red eye and gets on with his life.

They even wrote a song about you:

JOHNNY CASH LYRICS - Don't Take Your Guns To Town - A-Z Lyrics

I'm not that benevolent to kill him. I'd shoot him in the wrists and the leg and let him live his life out with hooks and a bad limp as a warning to others.

And then tcmtech drew down against Bob Munden,Richma's brother.

http://www.wimp.com/fastest-gunman-on-planet/

No, Bob Munden would have already taught him some manners if he was and Richma wouldn't be shooting off his mouth like he has been here.

Get it? Bob Munden, shooting off his mouth?

I'm pretty wary of going after anyone until I am sure I know what I am dealing with.

In engineering and mechanical work it's rare that anyone who has the mindset that makes them good at that sort of work is going to shoot their mouth off over dumb irrelevant stuff that could easily make themself look like a fool or worse.

Its pretty easy to see just in this thread given the comparison of hitekredneks comments Vs what richma said regarding the subject.

Ones mechanically inclined and has that mindset that goes with dealing with this sort of topic and the other, well, mostly just shot himself in the foot in front of everybody while apparently getting upset over nothing.

Nope, you're DOA!

Your powers of recognition are fatally flawed!

And this #53 proves it.

In American English, spelt primarily refers to the hardy wheat grown mostly in Europe.

Then you bury yourself with this brilliant statement.

"You haven'y spelled a word"?

Give up, sit on your hands for awhile!

I see. playing the bitter semi disabled old man who hates the world that went on without him card.

Sorry to hear but then again you may be making the whole thing up like was done in the other forum about the shaft seal issue?

BTW, as far as spelling and grammar go I'm a lifelong english class flunkout plus as earlier discussions show (Posts 7 - 11 ) many of us are also battling with odd spell and grammar check program quirks as well so what anyone may have typed can very well show up here with completely different wording and thus meanings if we don't catch the changes on a quick proof read.

Also if you really want to go after me for my own ignorance sake have a bash at me for punctuation. I got nothin' to defend myself on that front.

Oh, and for the point scoring here there are two ways it goes. Positive numbers are for Good Answers (GA awards) where someone finds what you said to be informative, helpful or often times humorous they will vote you one. Negative off topic (OT Awards), as you are getting are for being way too far off the topic at hand, acting trollish or if someone find what you said to be way wrong.

It's a mostly a childish voting system but you are more than welcome to go and vote any of my or anyone else's posts in this thread OT but if it's obvious it was done out of spite someone else will just going and cast a positive GA vote and cancel yours out and if done bad enough there is a good chance multiple people will go along and cast unnecessary positive votes just to counter spite you.

Play nice and contribute and we play nice and ask questions. (Except for me and Lyn. We like putting our asshats on and running amok sometimes. Usually to each other but not always. )

Poser, or even better, poseur. However, some p_ss_ constructions might fit.

My point is that your ego is so large that you can't see what a dickhead you are, look at your egotistical logo, now that's worth a laugh or 2 or 200.

Why don't you just go away. You haven't yet contributed a post of any merit whatsoever.

You've got a point with the avatar, not logo.

It should be a pile of burning tires.

Now, you won't know what that means because you have not been here long enough to get to know the regulars and the personalities behind the anonymous names and avatars.

As I said earlier, you burst onto the scene last month and lead with your mouth instead of your brain.

While you may have redeeming qualities, they are not obvious to the forum.

OMG! Am I seeing this?

Am I going to do a counter trolling tag team with Lyn!

I dare say BOOYA!

You need no help with this light weight.

I'll just watch you.

Yea I know.

You have any idea how hard I started laughing when you jumped in?

Scared the cats right out of the living room!

Now I'm going to waking up giggling all night.

Everyone, please stop the back and forth off topic bickering, or this thread will be closed.

Thanks!

Oh heavens tell me something I don't know. Being a dickhead is what I do best.

What logo? Are you mistaking me for a sports team now?

And yea as Lyn said. I too expected better of this.

I'm going to put my pretty pink troll saddle back in the shed. You're barely tipping the scales at getting the sparkly purple foo foo doggy collar and going for walkies in the puppy parade.

Seriously, from what the other guys said about you I really expected better. Heck, my daughters not even 8 yet and she can troll way better than you just playing Checkers.

Especially for someone who claimed to be an engineer. I expected wit. Down right solid scientifically based trolling not early 1990's internet half assery. I bet you're trolling me with Windows Vista for cripes sake. You better not be 'Macin' Me' now or I'm done.

Seriously, if your Backberrying this hackery in I'm outa here.

Yes I am! Like a rich dark chocolate espresso!

Bitter yet invigorating to the point of being addictive and definitely bad for your health in large quantities.

And modest to a fault!

I came back.

I knew you would.

It's my bitter dark chocolate espresso personality that does it.

That and I know you were just waiting to see what troll bashing tool I would pull out.

So far, I have not heard anything good enough to consider it top notch insulting.

I think I could give you both pointers on the proper technique for dismembering someone, starting with the knees.

But, alas and alack, I have lost my desire to just casually take someone apart for pleasure.

You two will just have to keep sparring.

But remember what Mark Twain said. "Never argue with a fool, bystanders may not be able to tell the difference".

"But remember what Mark Twain said. "Never argue with a fool, bystanders may not be able to tell the difference"."

Sure they will! You know I always wear the fool's hat and oversized diaper when I go into an idiot's battle! It's practically my trademark.

If man evolved from apes why are there still apes? ANSWER, so they can recognize you as one of them. If you actually had a human brain you wouldn't make such a fool of yourself.

Really?

You're dealing with professional engineering and technical trades people here.

You going at this with lower high school level references is just sad.

Science fair level work don't cut it here. I mean really now. I lead in with pink pony saddles and sparkly purple foofoo doggy collars rolled through smack talk with a 8 year old girl playing checkers then ended with multiple references to old less than popular computer systems and handheld devices just in one post.

Trolling is about self satisfaction over feeling superior to the other person by cleverly taunting and insulting them. Right now with that last one I got the strong feeling you're not even enjoying yourself anymore.

Do you need to take some Viagra go for a 10 minute walk and maybe change hands before we continue because what I am seeing here could very well be associated with frustrated flaccidity on your part.

At least I hope that's the problem because if this IS your A game.... OMG I know a little girl who would so own you on this.

You can comment more if you want but after that last one I might as well just let my cats walk around the keyboard for any further replies on my part.

I really thought I could converse with other intelligent adults in this forum. It appears I arrived in a disguised kindergarten for intellectually handicapped morons. Your reference to lower high school must be your aim to reach. To your great joy I shall leave you to your childish games with other uneducated rabble.

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Oh yea and there are a couple of threads over at the AC forum where they are talking about your precious B filter system again and how to modify it. Better go growl at those cars for while, Betsy.

You should have stayed silent.

No , but your cat makes moor sense. And you agree you are stupid

Guess I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. ASS!

Wound you up good didn't I?

You're so wound up your sentence structures total rubbish now and that's pretty bad when a life long English Class junkie like myself can see that!

I may be dumber than my cat but as with my cat I put a name and face behind every post so people know I'm not a coward that needs to hide in animosity.

I may be dumb and worse things but unlike you I put style, character and thought into it!

Oh well. Since we are at post 100 I think this is enough for me. The troll attacks are getting way too boorish and lame for me.

I really had expectation that I would have a solid formidable opponent but sadly no. What I got was standard basic low grade internet troll hackery. No creativity. No style. No anything really outside basic troll 101 class stuff.

I feel sad and a bit disappointed in this now. Guess I will have to go play checkers with an 8 year old tonight so I can get some real trash talking creativity. You know' Some real solid 2nd grade level feedback and not his weak sub kindergarten stuff that was presented here.

If you wanna continue on that's fine. Don't worry about turning the light off when you're done. I have them on a timer.

May I interject ? As to the Grammer issue, is there a way to consult an English grammar teacher to determine" why " the spell check function changes written sentences ? And that teacher can post an explanation here ?

OK, back to the arguments, please carry on.

I figured it was you.

But who exactly are you trying to draw out and are you aware your technique may need considerable more work to make it successful??

Again very informative. Thanks again!

If a old design works I have no problems with it but when it comes time to service or fix something and I am faces with very limited OEM or compatible parts to work with that where the necessity to redesign parts of the machine to work properly with new modern equivilant come into play.

Thats where my views of changing the oil filter circuit to work with a new common style of oil filter came into play given the information I saw suggested that there are other filters that will fit the tractor but do not have the same OEM flow and related critical characteristics that the average 20 year old supply store parts counter worker, or actual tractor owner that's not highly knowledgeable of his own machine would have any clue about until it was too late.

For many people who now collect those tractors and still put them into regular work rather than to be nothing more than collection/museum showpieces the concept of having a modern easy to find spin on oil filter would be a welcomed modification even if they didn't do it themselves and have no clue as to what small change was made to the system to make it work correctly.

For many its just a matter of it works and it's cheap and easy to service now too! That's what they will look at. I know I do!

Okay? I have not heard the term underhead cam before so is that similar to the old cam in block design or something entirely different?

A quick Google search brought me nothing of use.

L head?

Flat head?

The usual L-head arrangement. A flathead engine (aka sidevalve engine (SV), flathead, or flatty) is an internal combustion engine with valves placed in the engine block beside the piston, instead of in the cylinder head, as in an overhead valve engine.

Flathead engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had a '40 Ford with a flathead V-8. Those engines had front mounted distributor and two water pumps.

"Underhead" is my own joking description after hearing people brag about the DOHC engines. So, 2 cams in the crankcase, one on each side for intake and exhaust valves. It is a T-head engine--no removable head. It has 1013 cubic inches in 6 cylinders with about a 1500 rpm redline. Each cylinder is cast separately; another truck has 2 cylinders per casting.

I remember some of the old fire trucks had chain drive to the rear wheels...is that one of them?

The modern tractors do use gear oil pumps and spin on filters.

In the war era,most manufacturing was centered around military machinery,with not much left for anything else.

Even toothpaste tubes were recycled for the metal in them.

Perhaps they did not have the precision equipment available to make the oil pumps for farm equipment, with all going to shipbuilding and military use.

I think they did great with the available resources.

It would be easy enough to mount an external belt driven oil pump with by-pass pressure relief and an external spin on filter,but I would be very careful applying it to a motor not designed for the extra oil volume and pressure, for reasons previously stated.

What impact, if any, would the type of oil used/available today have on this?

Is modern 10W 40 better than old 40W non-detergent? I've heard this argued both ways.

Are you kidding! "What oil is better" discussions are grounds for all out war!

It's like combining religion, politics and voodoo belief systems all in one. No matter who you ask there is no right answer or everyone's choice is the right one regardless of what the guy before or after him says.

Personally I have no clue and have always ran everything I have ever owned on the cheapest stuff I can find. If it's more than $2 a quart of $40 a 5-gallon bucket it's too rich for my blood!

For a number of years Tractor Supply has ran their 15W40 all purpose Traveller brand diesel oil on sale for ~$40 for a 5-gallon bucket so I get a few of those for myself for the year and call it good. Same with their 303 hytran. On sale for $20 so we stock up on 10 or more buckets of the stuff every time.

We figure there is no point in buying expensive stuff being every machine we have manages to somehow either crack a hydraulic fitting, blow a O-ring out or chew one of its many hoses to bits every year due to who knows what having came apart assuming age alone doesn't do one or more in.

Heck, the local fab shop that make our hoses for us knows me by name now and always seem way to interested in what happened to bring me there. I can't break normal things in normal ways like everyone else you know.

I refer you to Bob The Oil Guy for more info on oil than you will ever need.

Things you always wondered about,but were afraid to ask.

Myths dispelled,mysteries solved,oil weights vs specific gravity vs viscosity explained;SSU vs SAE comparison charts,etc.

Have fun!

http://bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/http://bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Been there.

If memory serves, one of our members is his brother. Can't remember who at the moment.

I feel that if the oil is changed regularly, the brand/cost is not important.

I will dispense entirely from my experience the following:

All modern oils are superior to the old oils.

The non-detergent oils are also better than they used to be,and they still have their uses,such as in sleeve bearing electric motors.

If changing from a non-detergent to a high detergent oil,in a very old engine,start by adding one quart when the level gets low for 3 or four times,or flush the system with kerosene.

This will prevent too much old crud from breaking loose and causing problems.

Change it frequently,including filter.

After a couple of changes,you will notice the oil getting cleaner between changes.

Then switch to the high detergent.

How to clean a dirty engine:

I bought an old 1959 Ford F100 that was used by a small town.I don't think the oil and filter had ever been changed.

I had to drive a tire tool through the filter to get it off.

When the drain plug was pulled,it looked liked 90 weight draining out.

I got a gallon of kerosene,put the drain plug back in,left the filter off.

Removed the coil wire,and spun the engine over till oil came out of the filter housing holes.

Then I drained the dirty kerosene out,and repeated the process two more times with fresh kerosene.

The I let it sit for a couple of hours with the drain plug out.

I put the plug back in,installed the filter,and filled it up with 30 HD.

It ran great.The engine had been smoking out of the crankcase vent tube,but this stopped.

A sticking valve freed up,and the skip was gone.

It took 2 months for the oil to even change color.

It still looked like fresh oil on the stick when I changed it.

That truck ran perfectly for another 10 years,then I sold it.

Big mistake.Toughest vehicle I ever owned.

It was ugly,rusty,heavy,built like a barge and I mistreated it terribly.

Drove it through the woods,knocking down 4inch trees,mud up to the doors,and still it kept going.

Didn't have to worry about it getting dinged up in the parking lot...matter of fact,people seemed to avoid parking next to it.

Got rear-ended at a stop light by a Vega,totaled the Vega,put a scratch in the rear bumper.

These bumpers were heavy duty with a welded trailer hitch forming a Vee with the bumper.I pulled up stumps with the bumper.It was a lot of fun.

By now,it has probably been melted down into a couple of miles of railroad track or a dozer blade.

I miss that old truck.

flush the system with kerosene

I refuse to recommended this, because some of the kerosene may not drain out and thus remain to dilute the new oil charge--especially in systems which use dipper troughs for rod bearing lubrication (which is what mine are.)

Then by all means,don't recommend it.

I am simply stating what I did,and had no problems afterwards.

YMMV.

In my old junque I use SAE 40 detergent; no multigrade allowed, but detergent is fine. The advice I received is something like: Watch the oil pressure thru the first couple of changes to make sure it isn't doing something stupid. Cleaning the oilpan first is better, but the detergent generally does NOT loosen a bunch of crud to plug things up.

If it's for a 'working' machine not a trailered everywhere show toy why not use a modern bypass filter assembly? Amsoil do a spin-on bypass and Kleenoil a more traditional style unit, you might need a back-pressure regulator to keep the engine happy, fitted post filter controlled by the main gallery pressure, but it's doable.

Retrofit bypass systems are popular for extended mileage changes and better capture, standard spin-on or element full flow system are only rock catchers by comparison!

Wix filters still makies the old spin on bypass filter used on the Allis Chalmers engines built before 1960 or so... The number is 57011. It is available from Amazon or just google 57011. The filter will cost between 10 and 20 dollars. The bypass system is one of the most reliable filter systems period. Trucks and large industrial engines used these for years and the bypass filters are still available. In 2006 I bought a Sterling truck and spec's an additional bypass filter in addition to the full flow filter that was standard equipment on the 3126E Cat engine. The filter was better than the engine, but that is a story for another day. You may remember the old big chrome can filters that were mounted on the side of the old trucks prior to 1980, Mack used a lot of them. These were Luberfiner filters, and you could change the filter for about $5. The filter is still available for a ridiculously low price. It is made of wound cotton, one of the best filter medias made. If you want to know more about filters, I would suggest going to the Baldwin filter site and read their history of filters. Baldwin also still make that filter Allis Chalmers filter. I worked in a tractor dealership from the age of 12 until I graduated college. When I started we were the Allis Chalmers, David Brown Massey Ferguson, and Satoh dealership in addition to Bush Hog, Modern, and Servis ( Now Servis/Rhino) shortline equipment. We worked on anything that could be pushed or pulled into the shop, or the boss sent me out on to work.. The real problem with that Allis filter was when you pulled the filter off, you had to work it out from under the fuel tank. It was a tight fit without bending the center tube on the filter housing. if that tube was broken, we would get a piece of copper tubing that would fit over the outlet in the center of the housing, drill a couple of holes on the other end of the tubing near the end, ( the tube was long enough it hit the top of the filter), Then installed the filter with the tube. Next filter change, you remembered to remove the tube for the next filter. Many of those old tractors did not have hour meters, but if the oil bath air cleaner was changed every day as the manual recommended, they lasted for years. I had a WD that was used at least 300 hrs a year for over 15 years and was never overhauled. It also had a 6 volt system that had an 8 volt battery installed and the regulator turned up to keep it charged. ( try finding an 8 volt battery today for less than $200) We had to install a resistor to keep the lights from burning out. In those days you could find 8 volt bulbs also. On those old tractors if you could not get enough voltage out of the generator to charge an 8 volt battery, we installed a 12 volt generator with the 6 volt regulator or you could get an adjustable regulator for $10 from the Oklahoma Tire and Supply Co. store. Another company long since gone, at one time they were part of McCrory auto stores.

I remember OTASCO! I still have a battery charger my mother got from there....

OK, Call me Cheap and Lazy.....

What I did on my B was to just plug off the filter by removing the pipe that feeds the filter and screw my gauge into that....

Unless you're using the cr4p out of it and doing serious farming, just change the oil once a year and you're probably ok...

Bypass filtering IMHO is pretty much worthless in this case and I'd prefer to just change oil more often.

Keep an eye out for water in the oil, as that's a much more serious condition in these little monsters that can be as simple as a popped plug in the head, or an O-ring around one of the wet sleeves (PITA) and requires a teardown.

I take it you hang around acforums? send me a PM and we can talk.