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Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/10/2016 7:31 AM

This should be a fairly easy one for a number of people here to answer.

Over on another forum they got into discussing the engine oil filtering system on the old Allis chalmers B tractors which use a bypass type oil filter system. I tried explaining what is really going on with they design only to be told I don't understand plain english after given a numbers and basic physics based explanations regarding as to how to fix the problem bad ~70 year old design that's fussy about what oil filter is used.

http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128490&title=b-oil-filter-experimentSo here's the problem.

The original design uses a bypass oil filtering design that basically just taps off of the main oil supply to the engine and dumps some of the oil through a 1/16" dia restrictor orifice then through the oil filter which then dumps right back into the oil pan.

The problem is this.

The original design used a highly restrictive oil filter in series with the orifice to keep from draining too much oil away from the engine lubrication system which needs to work at ~15 PSI.

The issue is that when a newer design of oil filter is used that does not have the high internal restriction the oil pressure will drop down to ~7 PSI when relying on the restrictor orifice alone which apparently does damage to the engines due to lack of proper lubrication.

Given basic orifice flow Vs pressure calculations I came up with the 1/16" orifice has a bypass flow rate of ~.5 GPM which as they say drops the system pressure down to ~7 PSI when a low restriction oil filter is being used. So if the pressure drops to 7 PSI then that would indicate the the maximum flow rate it can support is ~.25 GPM.

Which means in order to keep the system pressure up at 15 PSI the flow rate has to stay under .25 GPM and to do so the original orifice would need to be reduced by approximately half its area which works out to ~.045".

As far as the actual filter designs I have no idea and apparently neither else other than 'more restrictive must equal better filtering numbers' of which no one has any clue as to what they may be either in terms of actual micron ratings so as far as anyone knows their 'good filters' could just as well be completely blocked off and provide no filtering whatsoever but do keep the oil pressure up.

That seem rational because over they apparently I am a big fool who doesn't understand basic english and worse.

And yea I invited them over here to play with the rest of us fools hoping someone will bring some real workable information with them.

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#71

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/12/2016 10:55 AM

I would think that if you were retrofitting filters, the cleanest answer would be to put a back pressure regulator between the main oil supply and the filter. That way, the system always has set pressure and any excess flow goes through the filter. It works until the engine is worn out enough that the main supply can't keep up with worn out bearings, but then it keeps feeding oil preferentially to the engine.

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#72

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/12/2016 11:01 AM

As far as bypass oil filters, or "kidney loop" systems, they work extremely well.....if properly applied.

My wife and I used to drive "Over The Road" for FedEx. We drove about 250,000 miles per year, all over the U.S. Back in 2009, we bought a used Freightliner M2 truck, with a 9 liter Cat engine. That engine required rebuild after 600,000 miles, typically. Rarely did anyone get more than 800,000 miles out of that diesel engine without requiring complete engine rebuild, even after changing out the 11 gallons of oil every 12,000 miles, using Shell Rotella or Mobile Delvac diesel engine oil.

The truck had 120,000 miles on it when we bought it. I had installed a Gulf Coast Filters Bypass oil filter system on it. The selling point was that we would never need to spend the $240 to have the oil changed every 3-4 weeks. Don't change the oil, just top it off after changing the bypass filter elements.

At 1,500,000 miles, the engine still ran like new with no noticeable wear. The system worked great, and saved us a bundle of money on oil changes and engine rebuilds. We sold the truck in 2014, the oil filter system helped bring a higher resale value.

So, properly executed, the bypass oil filter systems can be a great thing!

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#103

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/19/2016 2:01 AM

When someone is trying to get my goat,I remember what my grandpa said:

"Consider the source,and allow for ignorance.We do not know the burden that another may carry."

This has saved me from jail,the hospital,and possibly the grave in the past.

When someone calls me names,my reply is:"Sticks and stones may break my bones....BUT WHIPS AND CHAINS EXCITE ME!"

This usually gets a laugh and changes the atmosphere.

As a young man, the hardest fight I ever had was the one that didn't happen.

It was a battle with myself not to get physical.

I knew exactly the right thing to say,and the exact right thing to do,so I did nothing.

A man that can control others is strong,but a man that can control himself is mighty.

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#107
In reply to #103

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/19/2016 4:00 PM

Neat! I like it.

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#108
In reply to #103

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/20/2016 11:23 PM

I try to put humor behind that crap as well but dang some days it's just really hard to show stupid for the sake of being stupid any courtesy.

As a kid I dealt with that issue every single day with my little brother. There was no such thing as ignoring him or anything else and he had zero thoughts on how his actions made him look in everyone's eyes.

I can't count the times Mom pulled him aside and screamed at him, "ARE YOU REALLY THAT GD STUPID?" for acting that way then sent him to his room only to have him come back out later and start right up where he left off completely unaffected by the scolding and room time.

Just like any modern internet troll he would challenge and instigate with every ounce of his being no matter how idiotic it made him look in front of anyone. Anywhere, anytime, any reason it was act like he had some sort of learning disability to get under my skin until either I beat him or mom or dad did.

He'd challenge me to a competition then lose terribly at it but at the last second declare that whatever it was is not the real winning point but some arbitrary point he just made up was then proudly claim he won and gloat all friggin day about it.

Many times mom or dad would grab him and yell at him for being a fool and worse, (it was just as embarrassing to them as it was annoying to me) send him to his room only to have him come out later and gloat about his win over me again until I physically beat him so hard he couldn't do anything but lay there and cry and boy, let me tell you, I made damn sure it wasn't fake crying either.

The worst part was this crap wasn't a young kid thing either. This nonsense went on well into his teens and may times right in front of his friends to the point even a few of them laid him out at school for acting like such an insufferable idiot. Once it even got him punched out right in front of teacher during lunch hour, by one of his own classmates and buddies no less, who then just shook his head and walked away like he never saw anything.

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#104

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/19/2016 2:16 AM

Some members are very pedantic,so for the benefit of all,I present this link:

https://www.vappingo.com/word-blog/the-importance-of-punctuation/

Also beware of the Philosophunculist.

Here is a link to some seldom used words:http://www.islandnet.com/%7Eegbird/dict/p.htm

Now,as for spell checker:

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#105
In reply to #104

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/19/2016 3:13 AM

The next one to work on is "There is three errers in this sentence."

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#106
In reply to #105

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/19/2016 6:33 AM

A little auto referencing, circular logic:

The sentence below is true.

The sentence above is false.

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#109

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/21/2016 5:11 AM

A psychiatrist friend of mine summed human behavior up like this,kind of a rule of thumb:

2 Rules:

1. All behavior is selfishly motivated.

2. Rewarded behavior is repeated behavior.

No reward,no repeat.

It is obvious your brother was striving for attention.

Even bad attention is better than no attention.

Even a butt whuppin' was better than being ignored.

Everything we do is self centered and ultimately selfish.

The path to finding this truth is somewhat circuitous.

You get up and go to work because the alternative is worse.

You donate to charity because it makes you feel good.

You conform to society's rules because the alternative is worse.

I cannot think of anything that does not conform to these two general rules.

Can you?

I hope your brother turned out alright and did not become truly incorrigible.

I have seen teenagers grow out of it once the raging hormones settled down.

Sometimes a good woman will help.

Other times, not.

As Plato said:

As for marriage,I recommend it.

If you get a good woman,you will be happy.

If you get a bad one,you will become a philosopher.

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#110
In reply to #109

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/21/2016 5:15 AM

Xantippe.

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#111
In reply to #109

Re: Bypass Oil Filter Systems. Design Questions.

09/21/2016 8:55 AM

He grew out of it but it took about 30 years and getting knocked on his ass by life a bunch of times.

He couldn't handle losing or looking inferior yet looking like a total ass was not a problem.

Growing up I can't count how many times people asked me if my brother wasn't normal and every time I told them yes without hesitation or remorse. Then when asked what was the best way to deal with him I told them just beat the living crap out of him until he stops. Seriously hit him hard and hit him often. It's the only thing that will make him stop.

The problem was he was so afraid of loosing and looking bad that no matter what it was or who it was with he would do his change the rules crap on them right at the end when it was clear that he was not going to win.

The only game he couldn't win and make and excuse or change the rules to say he won was in getting beat down. You can't proclaim you're the winner of an ass kicking contest when you're the one laying on the ground and the other person is standing over you smiling and laughing at you!

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