Is Caffeine Just Caffeine?

There are so many different brews of coffee with different concentrations of caffeine around. At the same time 90 mg of caffeine is not an exorbitant amount of caffeine. I suspect the sugar in Kickstart is the root of your jitters. Kickstart has 20 gm of sugar. So unless you put 6 packets of sugar in your coffee, Kickstart is putting more sugar into you.

Sugar doesn't usually start my heart to skip beats - have noticed this with excess amounts of caffeine, like what you drink when you need to work for 12 hours longer than a normal day - that is why I suspected the caffeine.

Did you look at those ingredient lists?

"Carbonated water, high fructose corn syrup, white grape juice concentrate, concentrated orange juice, citric acid, sodium hexametaphosphate, natural flavor, gum arabic, potassium sorbate, ascorbic acid, caffeine, sodium citrate, acesulfame potassium, sucrose acetate isobutyrate, sucralose, glycerol ester of rosin, sodium benzoate, niacinamide, calcium disodium EDTA, calcium pantothenate, yellow 5, yellow 6, pyridoxine hydrochloride"

acesulfame potassium is a zero calorie sweetener, as is sucralose.

So you have three concentrated kinds of sugar, a sugar derivative, and two sugar substitutes!

Quien sabe what "natural flavor" is/are used...

I wouldn't touch that stuff, much less drink it!

The ingredient list is really just a hint. There are things that may be present in important amounts that are not required to be listed.

Also, chemicals may be present that are not initially added due to reactions with the container or reactions amount ingredients. Take the ingredients listed above as an example. Ascorbic acid and sodium benzoate in aqueous solution United conditions likely for storage/transport can result in release of benzene. Benzene is a known (not merely suspected) carcinogen. As early as 1948, the API was already stating "it is generally considered that the only absolutely safe concentration for benzene is zero"

Who knows what a combination of hexametaphosphates, acetate isobutyrates, benzoates and pantothenates might create given a little time and heat.

Caffeine is interesting stuff, its source and delivery means can have widely varying effects. Kickstart has 92 mg per 16oz can, but it also has "stuff" that's not in coffee. Here's the ingredient list:

"...Orange Citrus
Carbonated water, high fructose corn syrup, white grape juice concentrate, concentrated orange juice, citric acid, sodium hexametaphosphate, natural flavor, gum arabic, potassium sorbate, ascorbic acid, caffeine, sodium citrate, acesulfame potassium, sucrose acetate isobutyrate, sucralose, glycerol ester of rosin, sodium benzoate, niacinamide, calcium disodium EDTA, calcium pantothenate, yellow 5, yellow 6, pyridoxine hydrochloride

Pineapple Orange Mango Hydrating Boost

Carbonated water, high-fructose corn syrup, white grape juice concentrate, coconut water concentrate, citric acid, sodium hexametaphosphate, natural and artificial flavor, potassium sorbate, ascorbic acid, gum arabic, caffeine, acesulfame potassium, sucralose, niacinamide, glycerol ester of rosin, calcium disodium edta, calcium pantothenate, sucrose acetate isobutyrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Yellow 6, and Red 40.

Sugar content: 20 grams (per 16 ounces)."

It sure as hell ain't your average cup of java!!

No it isn't and that is why I wondered if it could cause quicker absorption of caffeine. I see a few unknowns in that list besides the usual preservatives and coloring agents.

One of them, sodium hexametaphosphate, was the main ingredient in the original Calgon bath crystals.

MSDS (Precautions: Do not ingest. etc).

Yeahhhh - it has a food number E452i, so it is used in our overly processed foods. There is citric acid in a host of natural foods, and after reading an MSDS, you'd be very concerned about ingesting that as well. It is all about quantities. (I did the environmental and safety gig here at work for 10 years)

Quite right to avoid ingestion of sodium hexametaphosphate, but if you read on then it changes into two other products when mixed with water, and it will be there that are ingested and not the 'raw' sodium hexametaphosphate.

Similarly its use in bath crystals is not an issue

Oh.

Mr 'Love Canal'!

In Oz that's a 'root' canal.

I avoid all caffeine.

Mountain Dew Kickstart Review | Does It Work?, Side Effects, Buy ...

"We were surprised when we searched for Mountain Dew Kickstart side effects. One customer stated, “Every time I drink this I get diarrhea. It never fails. That can’t be good.”

Another person said, “Makes my heart race. Maybe too much caffeine for me.” [5]

We found that Mountain Dew Kickstart side effects are rare. In fact, others mentioned no negative reactions. “For a energy drink [6] it isn’t bad. It helps me start my morning without feeling jittery,” said a customer.

“It has less caffeine than the two cups of coffee I usually drink. No headaches or afternoon crashes,” said another.

According to our research, if there’s a certain part of an energy drink that’s concerning, [7] like being the cause of adverse reactions, [8] there’s a limited chance of long-term success. There’s a problem if Mountain Dew Kickstart is the cause of negative side effects."

Morning coffee is it for me, except when we have to go many extra hours here at work. Fortunately that is only a few days per year. But, that is how I know the tell tale side effects from too much caffeine - jitters and heart skipping beats.

Consider how analysis works: Caffeine level in a given roast coffee ground is found by a controlled extraction process. Making coffee, while good, is not an analytical extraction method. The caffeine in these canned "energy" drinks (that should be re-named jittery crazy drinks) is just a powdered chemical that readily dissolves in water.

Which one do you expect to absorb more caffeine from imbibing? Not to mention the side ingredients that could be setting you up for a reaction outside your norms.

Lyn - my son had been drinking Mountain Dew for years until he started noticing blood in his urine. After several tests were formed, they found out that the Mountain Dew was causing him to bleed through his kidneys and was affecting his liver. He stopped drinking Mountain Dew eight years ago and has not had any problem since. Doctors do now say that it will cause this and that, over long periods of time, it can cause the kidneys to be damaged.

Personally in the last thirty years, I have tasted it two times and spit it out BOTH TIMES. To me, that is the worst tasting stuff that I have ever had.

NOW, as far as the Mountain Dew product that you are talking about - I have NO CLUE since I don't drink it. BUT I was surprised to find out that they used human baby fetus (parts) for coloring and flavoring. This, as well, with numerous other products we eat and drink. Check out the products used in PEPSI and base your opinions of that.

Seriously? Yuck!

Do you have any links to back up that last paragraph?

Pull up this site "Pepsi using Baby Fetal Parts for Coloring" and read some of the other headlines about it.

'Baby fetal parts'....'baby fetal'?

Come on. You can't believe everything posted on the internet.

You have to take some clues about the likely veracity of the message. Some of those clues might be found in the message itself. It is difficult to take anyone seriously who in all seriousness uses the phrase 'baby fetus' or 'baby fetal'.

.

Maybe YOU should search the wesites about dolphin rape caves or about bonsai kitten DIY kits.

Did you get that from BuzzFeed?

BuzzFeed published the 35-page document that contained unverified allegations. The news site said it published the document “so that Americans can make up their own minds” about the allegations. - in reference to fake news story about the Russians supposedly hacking Trump.

Apparently, the only hacks involved are these mindless reporters that insist on printing, publishing, and spreading swill as news.

Anyone that believes anything from the leftist media deserves the headache and/or heartburn that ensues later. It is far more toxic than the cheapest whiskey or vodka, and about as additive to the saps that have a penchant for believing what they read.

"... was surprised to find out that they used human baby fetus (parts) for coloring and flavoring..."

No, you've gotten it all confused; they never used 'human baby fetus (parts) for coloring and flavoring.'

They only used whole homogenized human baby feti and that was for smooth mouth feel.

There was a short period in the 70's when they used human fetus (parts) as part of other natural flavors, but those were adult feti and not baby feti; they were never used for coloring (the thought of using a fetus as coloring is reprehensible; I find it appalling you would even suggest it).

At any rate, smooth mouth feel has been accomplished using homogenized humanzee hybrid adolescent fetus (parts) for several years now, so no more problems. You can rest easy.

Oh, and my doctor said that your doctor was lying about Mt. Dew causing blood in the urine. He said your doctor was fond of sneaking crushed glass up patient's urethras.

How long have you been working at Mountain Dew LLC?

Adult feti? Really, you must be thinking your audience cannot read, much less comprehend. I cannot comprehend you, but I think I sort of understand words. You make no sense at all.

I think they use red herrings for color.

"If you can't keep up with the conversation, better not try to join in at all."

.

A little disclosure; your "Seriously? Yuck" comment is what prompted my response. Your credulity concerning the absurd claims practically necessitated a satirical reply to the claims. Use of 'feti' as the plural of 'fetus' was thrown in to insure you couldn't miss absurdity.

Yes, thank you, I cannot wait until the New York Times, or that other hack news outlet gets their slimy mitts on this story.

There is significant variation in caffeine content of batches of the same coffee, and your extraction process (brewing) might leave 75% of the caffeine in the grounds.

The pure caffeine dissolved in sugar water is all there.

Suggest drink 25% of the kickstart and assess it

So the delivery is essentially different. Why do they publish charts with caffeine contents for coffee if not really delivered? Strange.

Yeah - I'll be sure to have creamer available from now on, so I don't have to try this substitute source of morning "go".

Extraction efficiency varies with the fineness of the grind and the molecular complexity of what is being extracted.

A vague science

I have to wonder about the creamer consumption?

The reason i say so is that long ago I had a roomie that would literally add a little coffee to the cream. I was silently astonished (and ralphing) to witness two 32oz containers of vanilla coffee mate being consumed by a single human being on a weekly basis.

At my age I call any 'tainted' coffee "Saturday style" meaning the rest of the week should.. or could be enjoyed without the luxury of a 'dash' of cream or otherwise.

Could it be that the cream that mutes the effects of your caffeine?

I suggest the OP try 16oz of "Monday style"(creamless) and appreciate the coffee the way it's "meant" to be enjoyed. ..Make that 64oz of your coffee to account for the caffeine extraction issue.

After consumption compare results. OP may need to consume another can for a more accurate baseline or interest in toilet results.

..Please consult your physician, dietician and gastroenterologist before trying this or any other changes to your diet.

PS.. OT says.. Tea with cream? may as well put a dagger straight in the heart! or so i hear..

Never thought of that. Another possible ingredient that could be changing absorption rate of the caffeine. It isn't real cream, but, yes, the creamer would certainly appear to be a possible coating that would limit the absorption, as it has casienate and fats. Very good - I certainly can do that experiment if I can manage to get coffee down without a creamer.

Tea with creamer????

A cup of coffee has more caffeine than the average soda, but I find that if I have to drive all day, a soda keeps me awake and alert much better than drinking coffee.

I drink at least a cup of coffee a day but rarely drink soda unless I am driving on a long trip. I don't know if this makes the soda more effective. My guess is that it's the added sugar in the soda combined with the caffeine.

http://lifehacker.com/5713732/combining-caffeine-with-sugar-may-improve-concentration

I am seeing a tendency to favor the quicker absorption theory. Probably the reason for the difference between my usual drink and the canned one.

I see a lab experiment here concerning the sugar being the agent that promotes quicker absorption - give subject A a sugared caffeinated drink and measure response times to a problem and then switch to a diet soda and repeat.

May be a truth to this sugar theory - I mistakenly bought some water enhancing powders with artificial sweeteners that contained caffeine. The way I noticed my mistake, was when I tried to determine why I was having trouble going to sleep at night, I finally read the box they came in. That had a good amount of caffeine, but I never got the jitters from it - just an increase in alertness.

I would have to say I believe it is the added sugar that is giving the unpleasant side effects....I have noticed the same effects drinking coffee with sugar, but none drinking cuban coffee which is very high in caffeine...just zoom zoom...or it could be some additive...or it could be less caffeine causing some sort of withdrawal symptoms...or it could be alcohol residual effect....or it could be some side effect from some medication you have taken at some time either presently or in the past....or it could be dehydration....I would try drinking more water....

See my post 13 about sugar.

Hydration not a problem with me - I am a cyclist and that is beat into our heads by every bicycle magazine in existence. Yes it is winter in the snow belt where I live and yes I still cycle at least 5 days per week. (fat bike with 5" studded tires at 5 psi) With the need for plastic top layer of clothing on 10 degree with 20 mph wind days, I sweat more and drink more appropriately. Maybe not while riding as much as I should, because the dang insulated bottles still allow the drink to freeze, but definitely after wards.

Then I would have to say it was a larger dose of caffeine delivered in a more absorptive manner....I had this problem when drinking coffee....quit some time ago and no longer experience this disturbing effect....

I stay away from all this new generation "energy" drinks. They offer too much fast caffeine, most of them have taurine also that I object to.

Stick with apple juice if not coffee or tea in the morning. Apple juice will actually make you more alert than any caffeine drink without the jitters. Unfortunately, I never follow my own advice.

Besides, most of the drinks out there taste like drinking flyspray to me. I absolutely hate them.

I hadn't heard about apple juice for alertness, although I drink it regularly. I usually select apple juice when flying to and from work, but I chose it as the least adulterated of the available alternatives. Do you have any references?

There is a lot more in coffee than caffeine. Theobromine, harmane, carboline, and polyphenols are all present in varying amounts. These might alter the effects or timing of caffeine.

There are probably many substances present in small amounts (below reporting requirements) in energy drinks that may also alter the effects or timing of effects.

The only comment I can offer is that at one time I used to ingest a minimum of 12 cups (@8 oz) of drip ground coffee; mostly during working hours in a high-stress job. I used to get minor jitters when I went on vacation and didn't drink my "allotment" of coffee. Now being retired, I only drink espresso coffee, but still about 9 cups per day. I find it hard to function otherwise. Guess I'm addicted.

How do you sleep at night? With free coffee at work, I reached the 64 ounces of coffee at a minimum per day requirement to function, but I was not real sharp in the afternoon as I had trouble sleeping at night. I would go to sleep for at most 2 hours, then awaken with concerns on my mind. Sometimes it was 4 or more hours until I could go back to sleep. My mind would churn on and on about anything I could think of that needed solving, be it work, or my railroad layout, or even a better arrangement of parts on one of my bikes. (I spend as much time re-engineering my stable of bikes as I do riding them) With just 16 ounce in the AM, if I wake up in the middle of the night, I usually go right back to sleep. My waking in the middle of the night now is primarily dictated by my cats, and problems wait until morning.

Admins: they know.

Caffeine is an interesting compound . I'm sensitive to it . So I drink 1/2 decaf . I drank a small cup of tea a year ago , thought it to be insignificant . Was I in for a surprise . My heart rate went up to around 100bpm . Something to be careful with if you're sensitive to it .

Sensitive to coffee? Most 'users' would love to dial back to a day when this was true for them.

I'll bet you sensitivity would change if you upped the consumption.

curious

I just do not know the reason why to some people they prefer to have their coffee from this. What could have made it better tasting coffee. Caffeine perhaps, but I do not know. And it's not cheap by the way.

Is that the coffee that's passed through a monkey's intestines that people pay a pretty penny for?

I thought it was the disgusting practice of feeding the beans to a Civet cat.

Look at the up side to the process. No machinery to purchase or maintain and you only have to pay the workers that pick it up, not the ones that remove all the meat from around the bean. Feeding them gets the work done.

Switch to Black Rifle Coffee at blackriflecoffee.com.

Your guess is exactly on target. Not all caffeine is the same. Some forms use a formaldehyde extraction process to get "pure" caffine out of decaffinated coffee, this in turn is added to "energy" drinks etc. Of which too much of will have adverse affects. More in some less in others. This is comparable to cyanide. .. A little from natural source like apple seeds is beneficial to combat cancer, a large amount especially from a man made process, you get the idea

Whyfore art thou hiding Mr. AP #1 behind that mask?

I believe you completely. The old way used chloroform to extract caffeine, and make the Sanka. The new way uses supercritical carbon dioxide, so at least there may be less residual chlorinated organics in the beverage resulting. That does not mean I approve of, recommend, or taste test any of said beverage myself.

Beer is probably more healthy in the long run.

Caffeine is the life's blood that keeps this country moving.

Back in the 1600's when coffee was first introduced to Europe, the English were claiming it was the greatest thing ever discovered and the cure all for everything. They also said the same thing about tea when it was first introduced because this all occurred after England had first visited Asia.

During that same period the Dutch were looking into the addictive properties of coffee because textile workers starting claiming they can't get their day started without a cup of coffee.

Heard about a new coffee this morning called Stiff Bull Coffee, it's supposed to be able to give you an erection that lasts up to two to three days. The US Food and Drug administration says that the coffee has been contaminated with a chemical that is not listed on the packaging as part of the ingredients.

I suspect that should be imbibed only if the subject wishes to have the appendage in question amputated after three days. Can you say "lost circulation."