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Definition of Sealed VA Burden

06/15/2017 3:37 PM

Looking at a piece of rockwell literature and it references something called sealed VA

Given the fact that i know what a "seal in circuit" is for industrial controls can i assume this is the required VA to hold the contactor closed?

The document is below and on page 6 step one it references "sealed VA"

Can someone explain if my assumption is correct or not?

sizing a control transformer

Also, for example, i have a AB 100-C09D10 contactor

Im trying to determine the trasnformer VA requirments for many of these in aprrelle along with a few other models

The spec sheet can be found here.

here

I believe the info to be found on page 33

Anyone have time to take a look?

Thanks

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#1

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 4:21 PM

I didn't have much time, sorry, why don't you go to that company's website and search for "glossary" or "definitions" - it is not a field I am comfortable with as to giving free advice.

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#2

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 4:27 PM

When you energize a contactor coil, there is an initial inrush current similar to the inrush current when starting a motor. Then there is a steady state current going thru the coil - this is the “sealed VA”. On page 33 of the linked data sheet, there is a section “Coil Consumption”. It lists a value in VA for “pick-up” and a value for “hold-in”. Note: You state you will have several contactors connected in parallel – the inrush/pick-up VA is shown as 8 to 11 times the holding VA. Turning several of these contactors at the same time might cause a problem with the power feed by overloading it for a short time by oh, about 8 to 11 times your steady state current; but that short time (whatever it is) very likely will trip your protective breaker. With that warning I strongly suggest you get input from someone who has done this before, as it will affect the sizing of your transformer. And I'm sure someone will chime in on needing to be aware of the electrical code for your corner of the world.

Welcome to the fascinating world of design.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 4:46 PM

I had more or less assumed everythig you just said

The thing that is frustrating is that this is an AB document and it also an AB part

In one document they call it in rush the other its pick up in one doc its sealed VA and the other its hold in

Real nice consistency. As far as the trasnformer sizing goes this is a high current (16 A) relay card 1769-0w8 Its designed to turn on large contactors and other devices

The safety will be in the program that there is a delay or specific order in which the relays are energized.

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#8
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Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 6:57 PM

The thing that is frustrating is that this is an AB document and it also an AB part

In one document they call it in rush the other its pick up in one doc its sealed VA and the other its hold in

Real nice consistency.

The issue is that you are reading the CPT sizing document, which is based on the older NEMA components, then reading the coil data for IEC contactors. If you looked at the NEMA contactor coil data, you would see the terms "inrush" and "sealed" used, which is consistent with the CPTs having been designed when A-B only sold NEMA devices. When they joined the fray with IEC contactors, they did so by buying a Swiss company called Sprecher and Schuh, who used terminology that is more commonly used outside of North America, in this case "pick-up" and "hold in" because those terms translate better into multiple languages without needing to be defined or explained.

You just have to apply common sense to understand it...

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#5
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Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 4:48 PM

Yeah, that. I was going to say something stupid like, " 'the sealed VA' is the real power component of the complex power when no smoke is leaking out!"

Good thing he is not depending on me for electrical advice. Ha! 8-10 times a lot is a full whallop!

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#3

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 4:32 PM

<...Can someone explain...> Of course! Look, the local Rockwell distributor can answer these and many other questions over the phone. The priority is ALWAYS a telephone call to the equipment supplier, as that way, a working relationship is built up, which can lead to dividends in the future.

It is becoming startling how many telephones there are on the planet, and how little people actually use them to talk to other people these days. Is the telephone conversation a dying art or something (rhetorical question - NNTR)? Is learning how to use the telephone from the age of three or four no longer a part of the family childhood experience (rhetorical question - NNTR)?

Bring back the 20th Century. It was much nicer. People knew how to actually do stuff.

<unsubscribes>

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 4:49 PM

Aw, come on back PW, you don't mean it.

Let's have some fun, fireworks with smoke release, OK?

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/15/2017 6:06 PM

Ah! The 20th century, back when a human answered the telephone. Back when the person that answered could actually understand your question or direct you to someone who could without putting you on hold for a half an hour, only to connect with the voice mail for someone who would never call you back

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/16/2017 12:56 AM

Yeah, now you have to come here.....a timeless all-knowing oracle of information....haha, I guess we'll all be uploaded and assimilated soon....

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#10
In reply to #3

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/16/2017 5:12 AM

Hey: PW, have you actually tried calling a big company recently?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/16/2017 6:02 AM

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: definition of sealed VA burden

06/16/2017 7:03 AM

It's pretty sad that we don't know if your quote is real or fake.

In the old days you could usually hit "0 for operator" and get a real person. Sometimes "911" would get the Quality or Safety Response departments. Now these are normally gone.

... press 71 for ....

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