Previous in Forum: CT Connections   Next in Forum: Contactor Not Automatically Energizing
Close
Close
Close
24 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4

For How Many Days Is It Safe For Power Xformer To Be Filled With Dry Nitrogen?

07/04/2017 9:48 AM

Actually due to heavy weight of transformer it was filled with nitrogen for the ease of transportation. For how many days nitrogen is good within transformer without hampering the core and coils before filling transformer oil at site ?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 10:03 AM

Why not ask the transformer manufacturer, whichever one it is? It is only a phone call, if the information is not already contained within the installation manual, after all.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4
#2
In reply to #1

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 10:26 AM

If I had asked manufacturer then why should I have post there ?

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#3
In reply to #2

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 10:33 AM

It is a mystery. After all, the reason for not asking the manufacturer is completely abstruse, especially as there are sales warranty considerations to be considered before commercially-inapppropriate action takes place.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4
#5
In reply to #3

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 10:39 AM

Manufacturer and its warranty, commercial aspect is one part, but now I need to know about the technical aspect behind filling dry nitrogen in transformer and its advantages as well as disadvantage.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#6
In reply to #5

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 10:44 AM

Then pick up the phone and ask the principal source of information, which is the equipment manufacturer! No-one on the forum knows better than the original equipment manufacturer!

Th number of telephones on the planet has increased in proportion to the reciprocal of people's desire to use them for their original these days, it seems, especially as it is the quickest way of obtaining valid and appropriate information.

And "time is money" - Anon.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster #1
#9
In reply to #2

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 3:59 PM

It's people like you, who ask questions like this that have driven many members away!

ASK THE MANUFACTURER!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#11
In reply to #9

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 5:19 PM

I'm pretty sure it not those who are asking questions, basic and obvious or otherwise, that drives members out.

It's the few A-hole members (largely the cowardly ones who have to post anonymously while being A-holes over largely stupid petty crap) that drives people out.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#12
In reply to #11

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 8:33 AM

Amen to that! I say we vote the AP's out.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#13
In reply to #12

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 9:36 AM

Good luck on that idea.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#14
In reply to #13

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 9:40 AM

I know. It has been discussed with a lot of wasted breath before. I guess we should then use it to exploit one another, and have trolling matches, then....

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster #2
#15
In reply to #14

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 9:48 AM

You could try trolling a moderator to maximize the effect.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#16
In reply to #15

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 11:05 AM

Fredski? Are you up to your old shenanigans again?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster #2
#17
In reply to #16

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 11:30 AM

You should be very careful of who and how you accuse anyone of shenanigans. Unless you wish to defame somebody for no reason at all.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#18
In reply to #17

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 12:20 PM

Yep, that is Fredski. You are a funny man, old chap! Unless you are Lyn, in which case, I do not take back everything I ever said about you, and slap you on the back in greetings.

If you are still some anonymous A#1hole, then take a hike, although you are clearly AP#2.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#10
In reply to #2

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 4:47 PM

So this is you attempting to go against the advice of people more experienced and knowledgeable about power transformers, even the ones that manufacture them (OEM)?

From over here, it appears more like you attempting to make a donkey of yourself.

Why ask here or there if you have no ears to hear with?

What would the Supreme Being think?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
3
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#4

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 10:38 AM

Under certain conditions you can probably go for years, but it is not recommended...The nitrogen in the transformer should be under pressure with a regulator attached to the bottle and an alarm for pressure loss, and regular checks for leaks...In this set up probably a few months is max....The maximum exposure to air is dependent on the relative humidity, below 50%rh = 12 hrs max, over 80% not recommended to open....I would strive to keep exposure to outside air as short as possible to avoid problems....

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=98650

https://library.e.abb.com/public/b1269341759af221852573fa00780025/1ZCL000001EG%20Users%20Manual.pdf

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#7

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 11:01 AM

The nitrogen in the transformer is good indefinitely, as long as the transformer is not connected, not energized in such condition. However, the sealing mechanism of said transformer is always in doubt. One must maintain a positive pressure of 99.999% nitrogen on the transformer during transport to new location, stationing, etc. A means must be provided to bleed the nitrogen gas away, possibly requiring the use of SF6 gas as intermediate between the nitrogen and the following oil fill. The SF6 gas must be re-captured, and not emitted to atmosphere.

If OEM gives you the go ahead with nitrogen only, then bleed down the nitrogen carefully, so that positive pressure is maintained while adding the oil slowly, to limit gas-oil interface area (slows down gas solubility), then monitor the oil-filled unit for an unspecified period of time to allow out-gassing of residual nitrogen.

The entire protocol is actually on you to establish and approve internally to your organization, but exercise care to not void the manufacturer's (OEM) warranty.

In these situations, given any conflicting information, protocols, etc., always choose the OEM protocol to follow to the letter, since that is the only one where you get paid when it fails to work. Your insurance carrier should also have a vote in this.

Nitrogen gas is non-reactive to the materials commonly found in transformers.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Liverpool, NY
Posts: 961
Good Answers: 131
#20
In reply to #7

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/06/2017 2:31 PM

Actually, an intermediate (SF6) is not needed for purging out the nitrogen when filling the transformer with oil. Usually what is done is that a vacuum is drawn on the transformer, held for a time to verify that the integrity of the tank and seals is good (usually 24 hours), then the oil is pumped in hot while the vacuum is still being drawn. At the end when the tank is at proper level, the remaining gas space (if gas blanketed type) is pressurized to several psi with new, dry nitrogen, and we go happily on our way to get ready to do final test and energization. If conservator tank type of transformer, the conservator is appropriately filled, the Buchholtz relay and bushing wells are bled off if necessary, and it also goes to final test and energization. It is really not at all a difficult process if you have the know-how and equipment.

__________________
To get the right answers, first you need to ask the right questions.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#21
In reply to #20

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/06/2017 2:35 PM

Thank you sir, for the clarification. In what instance would SF6 be used or required?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Liverpool, NY
Posts: 961
Good Answers: 131
#22
In reply to #21

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/07/2017 2:08 PM

I have not known of it being used in transformers, since the nitrogen blanket works fine for keeping moisture and contaminants at bay while still being relatively inert and "harmless." SF6 is a great insulator, so it's generally used as electrical insulation in HV circuit breakers, GIS switchgear, etc. (where oil was used in years past), but not necessary for transformers. Its impact as a greenhouse gas is also detrimental to its use in transformers, where there often is a tendency for the gas blanket to leak away. This is based on my experience, not total knowledge across the industry - Others may have more to add to this topic...

Note too that some may have thought that SF6 would be a good insulating medium for transformers. However, it is not a good heat transfer material as is needed for cooling the windings, for which oil works much better. So mineral oil continues to be the most common insulating medium of choice for power transformers.

__________________
To get the right answers, first you need to ask the right questions.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#24
In reply to #22

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/10/2017 9:33 AM

Thank you, sir, I do believe that clears up the matter in its entirety.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#8

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/04/2017 3:01 PM

The dry nitrogen will keep moisture out only as long as it remains at above 1 atmosphere of pressure.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1367
Good Answers: 105
#19
In reply to #8

Re: For how many days it is safe for power xformer to be filled with dry nitrogen?

07/05/2017 9:09 PM

The insulation system must be known, and the solubility of the insulation with a gas could lead to trouble, if you have corona inducing high voltages present. The measures the factory uses to add the liquid dielectric, perhaps settling time and de-gassing time/procedures would be critical to establishing the dielectric strength before engergizing.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 729
Good Answers: 2
#23

Re: For How Many Days Is It Safe For Power Xformer To Be Filled With Dry Nitrogen?

07/10/2017 12:14 AM

As long as Nitrogen is there no problem.Pl keep checking for the pressure drop.Once nitrogen leaks moisture will get in

__________________
To avoid crticism do nothing,say nothing,be nothing
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 24 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anand_07 (2); Anonymous Poster (3); James Stewart (8); nesubra (1); PeterT (2); PWSlack (3); redfred (2); rwilliams (1); SolarEagle (1); tcmtech (1)

Previous in Forum: CT Connections   Next in Forum: Contactor Not Automatically Energizing

Advertisement