Previous in Forum: Power and Signal Cable Separation   Next in Forum: Reacceleration Protection
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5

WRIM

09/05/2007 8:57 AM

why does an open ccted wound rotor spin when 3~ is applied to the stator.I expect it NOT to run since there would be NO current in the rotor which is supposed to set up some flux and hence the torque?What are the dangers of runing it to synchronism and/or for some time?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: wrim
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Canada - Member - Our strength is our diversity

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1024
Good Answers: 40
#1

Re: WRIM

09/05/2007 10:47 AM

The rotor will turn because there is material where a current can flow in the rotor plates. When the motor was run before the open cct, it built up a small residual magnetism in the rotor plates.

If the rotor was only a solid piece of metal it would turn in a rotating magnetic field, however, eddy currents would make it inefficient.

The plates inside the rotor coils are designed to try and minimize these currents.

You would probably not get any significant speed or power from the motor.

__________________
Perfection is a subjective and abstract concept.
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#2

Re: WRIM

09/05/2007 10:54 AM

"What are the dangers of runing it to synchronism and/or for some time?"

I for one don't understand this part of the question. Are you mixing up wound rotor induction motors with synchronous motors? They both use slip rings, but they are not the same.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5
#4
In reply to #2

Re: WRIM

09/06/2007 6:16 AM

Sorry,I meant runing it to full speed and/or for a long time.Sorry for the mix-up of words!

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#5
In reply to #4

Re: WRIM

09/06/2007 7:57 AM

If the motor is rated for continuous usage and the load is not beyond its capabilities and it is a reasonable condition, insualtion testing shows no weaknesses there, there is reasonably cool air around to remove most heat generated (not shut inside a box), no worn brushes or bearings etc., it should run just fine......

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1439
Good Answers: 31
#3

Re: WRIM

09/05/2007 10:56 PM

What is residual magnetic field? During operation could the cores of the rotor coils become magnetized? Perhaps, given a high retention in the coil cores, the rotor could hold enough magnetizim to supply the torque needed to turn the motor when there is no load on it?

Gavilan

__________________
"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." -- Michelangelo
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Good Answers: 2
#6

Re: WRIM

09/06/2007 8:31 PM

You don't need residual magnetism to get rotation.The rotor will behave just like an ordinary squirrel cage motor,with currents being induced in the laminations producing a weak magnetic field.In a squirrel cage motor these currents are small compared to the current in the aluminium or copper bars,being deliberately minimised by the laminated construction.but are always present.

Be careful, a high voltage will be at the rotor sliprings if the rotor is open circuit with the stator energized,being at a maximum when the rotor is at rest,and diminishing with speed.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5
#7
In reply to #6

Re: WRIM

09/07/2007 2:56 AM

your answer is pretty good but are you talking about eddy currents in the luminations?Do you think they are enough to set up sufficient field considering the inter lumination insulation.

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Good Answers: 2
#9
In reply to #7

Re: WRIM

09/07/2007 3:12 PM

Often if the motor/transformer whatever is laminated has seen some service in wet/tropical environments the very thin paper between the laminations deteriorates and the laminations are effectively connected as a mass,albeit with still a fairly high resistance,but because of the large areas in contact quite large eddy currents can flow.

It just occurred to me that perhaps our colleagues rotor has some shorted turns,which would also give rotation and may not be noticed in normal operation as after startup the coils are shorted anyway. I have seen shorted turns but only on motors with very heavy start loads,like rock crushers repeatedly trying to start with a large boulder stuck in the jaws. These motors had a high initial current and violent starting,eventually breaking jaws instead of rocks!

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#8
In reply to #6

Re: WRIM

09/07/2007 6:30 AM

The laminations in anything electrical are there always to reduce eddy currents, otherwise the item may get very hot and just waste power.

In the type of motor (which I believe you are talking about) these currents are needed for operation and are developed what is generally termed a "Squirrel Cage" design is in the rotor, to make use of these currents in a positive manner, eg. cause rotation.....but with as little heating as possible.

Please checkout Wikipedia on:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_cage_motor

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Good Answers: 2
#10
In reply to #8

Re: WRIM

09/12/2007 8:03 PM

Always thought the term 'eddy current' was misleading as the varying magnetic field set up by the primary windings or stator creates currents in whatever it passes through,but these currents are referred to as eddy currents when undesirable,and induced currents when useful!

I wonder why achibuye open circuited the rotor? When building stator-rotor starters I always left the first stage resistor permanently connected as there was no need to switch it,and this prevented high voltages at the rotor terminals,(just like cts.)

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

achibuye (2); Andy Germany (2); Gavilan (1); JRaef (1); oldeng (3); techno (1)

Previous in Forum: Power and Signal Cable Separation   Next in Forum: Reacceleration Protection

Advertisement