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Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 8:19 AM

Hi all,
My project is to calculate and simulate "free space pass loss" and "multipath fading" of milimeter wave 28Ghz and 38 Ghz
Requirement:

  • Transmit and receiver antennas are located on top of 5 buildings inside my university (site-specific)
  • I have to calculate scattering, reflection of the wall, brick ...

Problems: That kind of requiments had me build 3D (any other way ??). I tried SketchUp to make 3D building but I got stuck, I can only calculate distances.
I'm so confused, assume that I did build those 3D buildings, then what should I do next ? How could I trace the multipath rays ?
Please give me some advise, thank you so much

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#1

Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 8:52 AM
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#2
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Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 9:15 AM

Thank you for your reply.

I searched for many documents, but all of them use "statistical model", some use site-specific but they just said "we use SketchUp or something-tool to build 3D model". But none of them could tell what I should do after I have my 3D buildings.

NYU simulator even has open source (matlab) for it but code used results from their simulating (they used SketchUp too), but I couldn't find the way how they get those result.

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#3
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Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 9:48 AM
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Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 10:08 AM
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#5

Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 10:45 AM

Here's one. I don't know how good it is. You can download a free trial.

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#6

Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 11:33 AM

Did you miss class on those days when this was explained?

Did you ask your instructor for help?

You might try asking some radio operators for help.

ARRL

www.arrl.org/

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

Forum » Home - ARRL

HamRadioForum

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#7

Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/03/2018 10:35 PM

Thank you so much.

Those links are so helpful.

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#8
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Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/04/2018 2:37 AM

Are you working on a bachelor's degree? What year are you in?

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#9
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Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/04/2018 6:36 AM

Yes, I'm a final year student

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#10

Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/04/2018 10:54 AM

What kind of antennas?

If they are on top of the buildings, why not use yagis or dish antennas so as to reduce any effects of multipath interference?

What effects the buildings themselves have will depend entirely on the reflective and transmissive nature of the materials at those frequencies. This is important. Bricks for instance might pass 2.4GHz nicely, but scatter the heck out of 28GHz.

Again, if the antennas are on the roofs, why not use directed beams with yagis or dishes and forget the rest of the problem? At 28 and 38 GHz a yagi would be no bigger than a postage stamp and a good log-periodic could be made directly on a pc board easily. I have used a log-periodic yagi as a feed on a 20db dish at 2.4GHz to send/receive WiFi over 5mi and the yagi was a pc board 2in long.

It just seems to me to be a make-work problem that is easily solved by proper antenna choice and placement.

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#11

Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/04/2018 11:00 AM

Why are you at 28 and 38GHz? What are you using for transmitters? What is your power? Do you have line-of-sight? (You better have line of sight at those frequencies because EVERYTHING scatters frequencies that high).

Build a scale model out of cardboard and put a different colored light where each antenna will be. Light em up, and everywhere you see a pure color you have a clear signal and everywhere you see a mixed color, you see a multi-path interference. Everywhere you see a shadow, you see no signal. At the frequencies you posted, every material and every air molecule will be scattering your signal and the light in your model will be an accurate representation of the real nature of your problem

WTF Brother?

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#12
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Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/04/2018 12:30 PM

Thanks for your reply.

Simulating at 28 and 38 Ghz is requirement.

But I could choose whatever kind of antennas I like, thanks for your suggestions.

Could I try the above said scale model with real terrain map ? I have to calculate multipath fading inside my school, I mean site-specific.

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#13
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Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/04/2018 1:15 PM

I suggest you go back and read the original post, carefully.

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#14

Re: Advise on Tool to Simulate Multipath Fading and Pathloss (Site-Specific)

03/07/2018 1:27 PM

After some time of considering, I decided to use SketchUp to build objects and use Ruby to write extension to control them using ray tracing (cannot find another way). Thanks for those links shared above.

I'm a complete Ruby dummies, still trying but I dont think I could do it in 2 months.

Any suggestion and comment about this solution would be appreciated. Thank you.

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