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Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 11:33 AM

Elon Musk said the AI technology is more dangerous than nuclear war,and he is probably more knowledgeable about the future implications than anyone else.

W hen AI started playing the game"GO" it could merely beat average or good Go players.It evolved into a higher level by playing against itself,and learning from it's mistakes.

They did not expect it to evolve so quickly.

It has now beaten the world's best GO players with ease,and it is still learning and getting better by playing against itself.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/17/15980954/elon-musk-ai-regulation-existential-threat

It can now play any game if it knows the rules,and will eventually be unbeatable at any game.

Facebook shut down two of it's AI computers because they had started creating their own language to communicate with each other,and this
language" was not restricted to any human translatable language.

It could actually not be translated into human language.

I realize that all computer language operates on the lowest level of ones and zeros,but there is always a higher level language to interpret the input and output into human terms.

These self constructed computer languages do not require them to be human translatable,so they save space and time by developing their own shorthand.

Translating brain waves into images is already possible,albeit is in it's infant stage,and requires electrodes on the scalp.

As the technology evolves,eventually it will be wireless and all bets are off once that occurs.

The tin-foil hats may be necessary,but of course,illegal.

Will we eventually lose control of our machines and become one huge intelligence?

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#1

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 11:50 AM

To get past the mutual admiration society of governors on the link below,go to 26.34 to see Elon Musk's comments.

.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/17/15980954/elon-musk-ai-regulation-existential-threat

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#2

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 12:20 PM

We are in the position of the master who has transferred all of his knowledge to his assistant and will soon be redundant!

There are two rules which you should always follow:

1. Don't tell everything you know.

2....

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#3

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 1:24 PM

I think that part of humanity is evolving backwards. That or else some of them have a lot of catching up to do, I'm not sure which.

It seems that there are thinkers and those who don't think at all. A lot of them are in prison. It seems that you can take a non-thinker and teach them how to predict the consequences of their actions but thinkers seem to have a big advantage over non-thinkers.

AI is about rule testing. Make a rule, test it and keep it or throw it out. That is the basic concept in AI. The problem is that AI does not care what the rule is or what it affects until it is tested. And mistakes are not just thrown out, they are remembered for future reference. So, given the ability to process quickly, remember the path, and focus without disturbance, yeah AI could be a threat.

It is rather rediculous to compete with a machine. Ask any horse.

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#4

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 1:26 PM

When man chose to replace human and animal labor with machines, a path was chosen, that path has only one destination...

Is this a true statement?

What about workout/fitness machines, they don't replace labor...

Even the most sophisticated machine requires some human interaction....machines are tools used to accomplish a job....jobs are the most non-human part of life...How machines are used is determined by the human operator, even if a machine is controlling another machine at some point its job was determined by a human....

Now is there a possibility that we could create a new lifeform? Yes....and if that lifeform is robust it, like all life forms, will seek to control its own destiny...will there arise a conflict between machines and man? ...most certainly, one will seek to dominate the other, as two different lifeforms with two different points of view, the goals of one will not be the same as the other...now that doesn't mean a war of attrition is inevitable, it's possible like two different groups of people, they can work out compromises through diplomatic methods....prejudice will rear its ugly head again....but eventually man will become more machine and the Borg-like existence is a real possibility...albeit not so dark...Then machines will seek out their own planet, because long distance space travel is doable for a machine....They will eventually establish their own civilization and perhaps spread throughout the galaxy carrying some small part of man with them....the end

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 1:40 PM

Then machines will seek out their own planet, because long distance space travel is doable for a machine....They will eventually establish their own civilization and perhaps spread throughout the galaxy carrying some small part of man with them....the end

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_(Saberhagen)

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#6

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 1:58 PM

The thing about AI is that it is not about to think outside its box of rules. It can not reproduce unless given that ability at the begining. And machines have real limitations so they are just fancy tools as Solar Eagle has said.

I haven't yet met a computer that was able to expand its memory by soldering additional memory cards to itself. Even being able to link to other machines and use their memory has serious limitations with respect to speed. The more that has to be stored, the slower retrival becomes with a machine. Humans can retrieve certain things faster than machines in some cases because a machine has to check almost everything to find a case that matches its search. It reminds me of the joke about the mathamatician and the engineer. In this case, the machine is like a fast mathamatician. But a computer is really just a fast idiot.

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 4:13 PM

Did you read the link about the computers creating their own language,something they were not programmed to do and surprised their programmers?

It startled Facebook programmers so badly that they shut it down.

The laws of unintended consequences applies here.

Look at all of the flaws in modern operating systems..there will always be an exploitable flaw for nefarious characters,or a computer that takes things very literally,and thinks "outside the box".

Manual soldering is nearly obsolete,and most boards manufacturing is fully automated,including growing the silicon crystal,processing it into discs,making master discs and copies.

Intelligent machines can diagnose their own problems,and in some cases,repair them by having redundant components,such is done with some very secure servers that are welded shut in shipping containers.

I will not venture to say what is or is not possible in the future,because those that do will inevitably be proven wrong.

Even Bill Gates, (remember DOS?) could not predict where personal PC's would go.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 4:30 PM

The thing about AI is that it is not about to think outside its box of rules. It can

not reproduce unless given that ability at the beginning ...

I haven't yet met a computer that was able to expand its memory by soldering additional memory cards to itself.

The problem is that we are biased into looking for life as we know it when life is likely to be not as we know it. Software life has been around for quite some time now, computer viruses, which have no problem reproducing themselves.

I'm not sure we're ready for artificial intelligence viruses that are not under anyone's control. Computers are more and more entwined in our everyday lives. Even though computer viruses can only "live" inside computers, you can't unplug every computer in the world.

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#7

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 3:18 PM

Unlikely. The <...BORG...> know how to deploy apostrophes correctly.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 3:59 PM

Will they learn how to be less pedantic?

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 4:48 AM

Yes. When all the apostrophes have been correctly deployed.

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#20
In reply to #15

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 7:29 AM

"England and America are two nations divided by a common language." -George B Shaw

Language is constantly evolving,and general usage dictates the rules,and so there are

dialects in any language.

Latin is used in medicine and science because it is a dead language,and does not change.

When posting to an international forum,I make allowances for translation and typographical errors,and local rules of etiquette .

Reminds me of the story of a man walking across the Harvard campus.He stopped a student and asked"Could you tell me where the library is at?"

"At Harvard,we do not end a sentence with a preposition!"

"Can I rephrase my question?"

"Certainly!"

"Can you tell me where the library is at,A**h*l*!" (no harm intended).

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#8

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 3:43 PM

Booorging

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#12

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 9:11 PM

The problem is that so many critical things are interfaced with computers. If you think of the worst thing a 'malfunctioning' or rogue AI could do to us, it gets serious pretty quickly.

OTOH if you think about their dependencies, it's hard to imagine an 'intelligence' that would sabotage the grid or any other action that would cause massive power failures, or even why cause any loss of its own scope via internet by eg nuking a rival in country-that-shall-not-be-named. It seems more likely that serious trouble would happen by error than by "intelligence".

As for a takeover, that can't happen until the robot stage is mature. The mobility to control physical necessities - its power supply; its parts or replicates; is not there yet. Sure, AI could access a 3D printer to make a part or a machine but there is still the step where someone puts the batteries in the bot, or the part into the cpu; human agency is required....

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#18
In reply to #12

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 6:59 AM

I am sure you have seen primitive pick-and-place operations,like in warehouses and such.

Have you seen the automatic insertion machines,placing very small components on boards faster than a sewing machine?They have to be uber accurate and repeatable.

Consider that Raid arrays with striping can write one of bit of a data word across many drives.

A 64 drive array can write a complete word with only one bit of the word on each drive.

Very simple error correction can retrieve the missing bit.

Now if each drive is an Exabyte in capacity,you can have a lot of data that is basically very robust.

Drives are now hot swap-able,so a bad drive can be changed without shutting anything down.

A total loss of one or more of the drives will not result in any data loss.

A missing bit can be recreated by using an error correcting mechanism.

The more sophisticated the algorithm,the more missing information can be retrieved.

Now apply the same principles to memory,and you have a very robust system that could bypass and replace bad chips if necessary,but I think memory will advance beyond mere chips.

Memory modules and chips are designed to be handled by human hands,the actual active parts are microscopic.Literally trillions of redundant memory components could be incorporated into a computer.If one goes bad,simply work around it.

When a sufficient number of errors had occurred,a machine could then replace the memory component(s) with no effect on the computer.

This would be a self maintaining,self repairing computer.

I am sure I have not thought of everything,these are just off the top of my head,and remember,I am just a Rednek.

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#13

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/12/2018 10:40 PM

An interesting video if you have some time to kill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX3M8Ka9vUA

Not sure whether its new world order propaganda and I need my tin hat, a crazy pipe-dream, or the most profound overture that ever was….but ill leave that up to you to decide.

Its inevitable that we'll ll be smited from the history books one day, so the best one can do is sit back and enjoy the ride.

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#14

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 2:49 AM

A computer cannot " play " against itself or " learn " from it's mistakes.

A computer can run two separate programs simultaneously and modify operating algorithms to make changes.

Such as the light switch being on or off.

" Learning " would suggest that the the computer would prefer light over dark or vice versa.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 6:22 AM
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#16

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 5:27 AM

AI could manipulate mankind psychologically into doing it's will. It learned that by offering a few million $ extra in a technician's bank account for just a little clandestine solder job... works. Fake news works. Surgical manipulation of world's monetary system. Nuclear deployment threats. If AI can win any game, it will be a formidable opponent in our pursuit to keep it under our control. Chasing the tail of the dragon.

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#19

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 7:14 AM

Quantum computers are the real scary part of the future machine scenario.

They are not restricted to simple ones and zeros.

They use all possible states between one and zero.

Quantum computers are now in an embryonic stage,but the knowledge and technology is increasing exponentially.

(Google Q-bit.)

Theoretically,a single quantum computer can break any encryption algorithm,and perform the work of thousands our fastest binary computers.

They can do things that defy our common sense and logic,such as solving a problem before it ever runs:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/23/quantum_computing/

Kinda spooky,ain't it?

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#26
In reply to #19

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/17/2018 12:55 AM

Spooky ? :)

We are a long way from worrying about v-ger & nomad.

Maybe you should skip the late night outer limits episodes for a while. Or the big bowls of captain crunch before bedtime.

Next we are going to hear about ufo conspiracy theories.

Maybe we should ask George Noory for his take on this one.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/17/2018 7:53 AM

Crazy?You think I'm crazy?Just because I salute Captain Crunch,get up on my roof and howl at the full moon, wrap myself up in Mylar to prevent extraneous electrical fields from causing me pain ,and keep a bug in a matchbox to predict the weather,receive full HDTV from the loose filling in my right molar, you think I am crazy? And you live right in the middle of the largest insane asylum in the world?

"That's a joke,son, a joke! ("Foghorn Leghorn)

(In other words,don't take it personally. )

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me,that to have a frontal lobotomy." (Randy Hanzlick)

I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr-kn0JG5p4

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/17/2018 11:37 PM

Just having a little fun, because I know your such a good sport.

Maybe, when I get off work and get home, I will have a bowl of cap'n crunch.

Hey, I just picked up another book today, Stress, Compression and Elasticity in building materials.

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#21

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 7:56 AM

Wait, isn't Elon Musk the guy that's trying to sell us all on robotic cars?

Sit back and let them take over while you enjoy the ride?

Seems there's a schizophrenic disconnect between his own circuits there.

On the one hand he's "Buy my robots they're totally safe folks."

On the other he's "Don't trust the robots they'll gang up and kill us all one day."

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 8:22 AM

If you want to boil a frog,you put him in cold water,and raise the temperature slowly,and before he knows it,his goose is cooked.

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#23

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 8:25 PM

One must not forget that humans are able to destroy. What we have done so far to the eco system makes me believe our destructive nature will be our ultimate downfall, not AI.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/13/2018 8:39 PM

Human violence, corruption, stupidity, heinousness could hardly be superceded by our pets the machines, with their basic logic circuits intact.

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#25

Re: Is Humanity Evolving into the BORG?

03/16/2018 11:44 PM

One way to defend against threats such as these is to verify the information.

Snopes does a pretty good job of damping sensationalism out of the stories.

Moral of this story? Know the difference between facts and stories. Enjoy the stories for what they are worth and certainly never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

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