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Transposition of Power Wires

03/13/2018 8:45 AM

Anyone ever notice how power wires are transposed along their route?The A B C phases are rotated from pole to pole, in a circular pattern, and I presume this is to prevent mutual induction and noise on the line, like a twisted pair cable.

I think it also prevents coupling to the Earth's magnetic field, which is what Tesla was working on when he died.

His idea was to use the Earth's magnetic field to carry power wirelessly all over the planet.

So here is another conspiracy theory:

The big players in Tesla's time were aware of what he was working on,and realized there was no way to monitor,meter,or sell the power,hence no way to profit from it,so they did everything to make it fail.

There is not a single one of his intact towers surviving,only a few parts scattered about in museums.

Tesla kept all of his plans in his head,after Marconi stole his ideas for radio transmission, so to this day, no one knows how he was going to accomplish his dream or wireless power.

Or do they?

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#1

Re: Transposition of power wires

03/13/2018 8:56 AM

<...Marconi stole his ideas for radio transmission...>

Had Marconi not developed radio transmission it is likely that the death toll from the Titanic disaster would have been somewhat greater. Such a calamity would then have been at Tesla's door. Or would it (rhetorical question - NNTR)?

<...Or do they?...>

Define <...they...>, please.

It is possible to conceive that this post is coming from a pro-<...Tesla...> lobby, intending to disavow the contributions of other great Scientists and Engineers. Or is it (rhetorical question - NNTR)?

This post is certified free of apostrophes.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Transposition of power wires

03/13/2018 9:05 AM

This post is certified free of apostrophes.

Or is it (rhetorical question - NNTR)?

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Transposition of power wires

03/13/2018 9:38 AM

Another conspiracy theory. Or is it (rhetorical question - NNTR)?

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#13
In reply to #4

Re: Transposition of power wires

03/14/2018 12:37 PM

Of course it is a conspiracy theory.

People love conspiracies,and I expect this post will generate a lot of push-back.

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#10
In reply to #1

Re: Transposition of power wires

03/14/2018 10:46 AM

I am not part of a lobby,only one individual that considers Tesla as an unsung hero of modern life.

Everything you see around you that is powered by AC is due to Tesla.

His ac motors power industries,his transformers make it possible to deliver power all over the world.

Edison would have had generators every few miles because DC cannot be easily stepped up in voltage.

Edison did everything in his power to discredit Tesla and AC,even electrocuting an elephant to show how dangerous it was.

Tesla prevailed and lit up the 1893 world's fair with backing from

Westinghouse,(who would eventually cheat Tesla out of his ac motor royalties).

This is not to discredit other honestly great engineers,or scientists, or businessmen,but merely to give credit where it is due.

It is also possible that Tesla would have fully developed radar,which he had plans for, and the Titanic could have avoided the iceberg.

Tesla had a radio controlled model boat which responded to his manual inputs.

He was way ahead of his time and IMHO one of the greatest contributors to modern life and all of it's conveniences.

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Transposition of power wires

03/14/2018 12:46 PM

I may be crazy,but:

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me that to have a frontal lobotomy"--Tom Waits

http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/i/idratherhaveabottleinfrontofme.html

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#3

Re: Transposition of power wires

03/13/2018 9:05 AM

I always wondered if Tesla had been successful (unlikely due to no way to profit from it) would it not have been rather dangerous for aircraft as we know them today? Rather like when a plane is hit by lightning, but continuously rather than briefly?

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#5

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/13/2018 10:29 AM

The phases are transposed periodically along the transmission line route to balance out and minimize the impedance of the line due to the asymmetric orientation of the phase wires to each other. Unless they are all oriented symmetrically to each other (triangle), the physical layout increases the impedance of the line. By occasionally transposing, it reduces the effects (but not to the level that it could by a triangle orientation).

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#12
In reply to #5

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/14/2018 12:34 PM

That sounds logical and reasonable to me,since the algebraic sum of all 3 phases equals zero,and if all phases are balanced there would be no losses due to inductive impedance.I am sure there is probably some capacitive reactance with the air involved also.

I have also notice that very high voltage towers carry the phases in a delta formation.

Your answer get a GA from me.

Thanks.

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#6

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/13/2018 10:39 AM

From your icon, I can see you might be a fan of Mr. Tesla...

For long transmission lines, the shunt capacitance and series inductance have to be considered. These components are affected by the physical position of each phase. For transmission lines longer than 100 km the phases are transposed to balance the line. I don't know how this could have anything to do with the earth's magnetic field.

http://www.electricalpowerenergy.com/2017/04/11/transposition-of-transmission-line/

Mr. Tesla's intentions were noble in wanting to provide free power to everyone, but the reality is that investors would be reluctant to provide money for a power system for which there was no chance of a return on investment. TANSTAAFL

If it would be possible to transmit power through the atmosphere, I wonder what the effect would be on communications and other technologies that we depend on today, as well as health effects. Maybe it's a lot safer to keep the electricity inside the wires.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/13/2018 10:15 PM

We do transmit power though the atmosphere, it's called Radio Frequency Radiation. Tesla was more fixated on transmitting the energy through the earth, and using the atmosphere as the return "conductor". The law of physics that he refused to acknowledge is known as the ISL (Inverse Square Law) which in effect reduces the power density as the square of the distance from a point source.

You're correct,it's better to keep the energy inside (actually within a few millimeters of the surface, but that's another topic) a conductor, especially when you consider that we use the atmosphere as an insulator between those conductors.

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#8

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/14/2018 5:09 AM

In ultra high voltage power lines most of the electricity is carried by the atmosphere or more precisely the ionised layer formed around the wires by the high voltage. The cable is just there to create and direct the ionised gas. The phases are rotated but not at every pole (we call them pylons) as this would needlessly complicate the structural design of the pylon.

Your assertion that Telsa invented radio fails to take into account the work of Hertz who was the first to demonstrate it. Marconi's family were bankers and this gave him access to both money and powerful political contacts to commercialise the technology. He never made claims to be the inventor but without him the concept may have remained in the laboratories of Hertz, Telsa and several others who were working on it at the same time. Marconi should be viewed more as the Bill Gates of his era. Gates has never invented anything but without him computing would not be where it is today.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/14/2018 10:24 AM

IMHO:

I speculate that Tesla was considering using the ionosphere as a conductor,and the ground as a return.

But this is personal speculation,and is not grounded in any scientific principles and I am open to knowledge as to why this would not work.

Off hand,it seems to me that the ionosphere is a good conductor.

Marconi visited Tesla in his lab,and copied notes that Tesla had written on a board.

He later used this pilfered information to develop the first radio transmitter.

So basically,Marconi was a thief.

As a result of this, Tesla lost funding,and his venture failed.

I do not know anything about Gates,so I won't speculate on that,but in business,as in nature,the big fish eat the little fish.

This is simply evolution on a different scale,and with that I cannot find much fault,but I feel Tesla has never been given due respect for his work and great mind.

Gates is a very great and altruistic person,and his charities are beneficial throughout the world.

Marconi's patent on radio was later revoked and given posthumously to Tesla.

Edison also cheated Tesla ,which is the reason Tesla left Edison.

Westinghouse poor mouthed Tesla into tearing up his contract with him for the first AC motor,which was only $.01 per horsepower for every motor produced.

Were it not for the thieves and scoundrels,Tesla would have had plentiful financial resources to develop his projects,instead of dying virtually penniless.

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/14/2018 3:50 PM

No need to speculate, his idea was just the opposite. Tesla "...theorized from these experiments that if he injected electric current into the Earth at just the right frequency he could harness what he believed was the planet's own electrical charge and cause it to resonate at a frequency that would be amplified in "standing waves" that could be tapped anywhere on the planet to run devices..." Unfortunately this type of "resonance theory" is often used by promoters of perpetual motion machines.

This article gives a condensed biography and timeline; the above quote was taken from the Wardenclyffe reference contained therein.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Transposition of Power Wires

03/14/2018 11:01 AM

"... most of the electricity is carried by the atmosphere or more precisely the ionised layer...The cable is just there to create and direct the ionised gas...", absolutely not! If that were true then why would the conductors heat up if no current is passing through them? Air is a poor conductor of electricity as evidenced by the fact that we use it as an insulator between phases.

The "ionized gas" that you refer to is known as corona, and represents a LOSS to the atmosphere from the surface of the conductor, not the transmission of power along/through it.

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