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Batteries on Telephones, Laptops, etc.

03/16/2018 1:01 PM

Could someone possibly elaborate on the possibility of using very many 'smaller' batteries on telephones, laptops etc, assembled as one package off course, than using one, as they do now. Charging them in parallel they would recharge in a minute then using them appropriately to feed the circuit, like in series for example.

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#1

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/16/2018 1:26 PM

You can't have batteries connected in parallel and series at the same time....so the phone would have to be disconnected from the battery during charging...that would be if making cells that small were possible...and then you would need switches at every cell that switched circuits from parallel to series, in a fail safe manner....you also need charge balancing tech built in, and overcharge/overheating protection....I'm sure there are a myriad of other problems as well....I'm not saying it's not possible, just that I don't think this is the best approach...

smallest li-ion battery

https://industrial.panasonic.com/content/data/BT/docs/edbd/pin/CG320A_DataSheet_EN%28SA%29_20170419.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/16/2018 1:43 PM

I'm sorry but I have seen a lot more difficult things accomplished. I wish they had tried at least.

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#9
In reply to #3

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/17/2018 1:23 AM

Well, " they" did try and try they did, but they realized it was for naught, so they decided to do what they were doing.

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#11
In reply to #3

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/18/2018 3:54 PM

And what makes you think that "they" haven't?

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/19/2018 7:58 AM

Undefined: <...they...>.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/19/2018 8:29 AM

The pronoun "they" is occasionally properly undefined. I believe this is one of those times. Ironically it also undermines fays unkle's comment. Admitting ignorance about who does anything means you know nothing about what they did or did not do.

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#2

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/16/2018 1:40 PM

Many batteries today are actually battery packs with multiple batteries wired in series or parallel depending on the demands of the load. (A 12V car battery is actually six 2V lead acid batteries in series.) Unless one switches the battery chemistry used the charging time will be the exact same time no matter what charging circuitry topology gets used. If one changes the battery chemistry without addressing the charging control and circuitry then premature failure, including the possibility of fire, can happen.

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#4
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Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/16/2018 1:51 PM

"...Unless one switches the battery chemistry used the charging time will be the exact same time no matter...." is this to mean that a 2V battery requires the same time to charge as a 12V one or that five 3.5V, 100mAh batteries will charge in the same time as one 3.5V, 500mAh battery, if it's not too much to extend on this, thanks.

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#5
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Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/16/2018 2:27 PM

If the chemistry and the charging circuitry are the same then yes the time will be the same if the sum of the capacities are also identical in to an individual battery. Now having smaller batteries in parallel can (particularly during charging) produce a run away heating problem when one cell supports a slightly smaller voltage than another.

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/16/2018 6:23 PM

Let's get the pedantic bit out of the way first:- a battery is combination of cells. The cell is the basic single unit, a combination of cells either in series, parallel or series/parallel then becomes a battery.

In the case of lead acid (LA) battery charging - a 2v LA (actually 2.2v) may be a single cell or a multiple of cells in parallel, a 12v LA (actually 12.8v) will be a combination of at least 6 x 2v cells in series but is more commonly a group of multiple cells connected in parallel and then in series with five other identical groups to increase the amp hour rating of the whole.

It's easy to charge LA cells in series because they have a self equalising voltage effect where any cell that reaches its full charge voltage before other cells in the group will simply produce gas, thus releasing energy until the other cells have caught up. They also tend to accept less and less charge current as their voltage rises which also limits overcharge possibilities in the short term. Simply increasing the voltage across the battery to enable a sufficient charging current to flow will achieve the same result in the same time frame as would a lower voltage across a single cell

Lithium based cells are different, they do not have the ability to self equalise, they also have a very sharp knee curve at the top end of their charge cycle which can allow them to go very quickly into an over-voltage condition whereupon they can easily self-destruct - often with catastrophic results.

They also have a very much lower internal resistance, so the current limiting effect seen in LA types is not evident in Lithium types, and so thermal runaway is a real danger. Cells charged in series present this concern and these type of batteries require special balancing circuits to prevent over-voltage on individual cells. Many smaller batteries just limit the charging voltage to a more manageable level that limits the danger.

Charging these type of cells in parallel - where the voltage is identical across every cell prevents this problem but the circuitry required to achieve a change from series to parallel, or even series/parallel to series for charging purposes, and then back again for use would be prohibitive.

Remember also that most of these devices remain usable whilst charging - this would not be possible if the cell configuration was changed for charging.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Batteries on telephones, laptops etc.

03/17/2018 10:51 AM

Here is a good schematic of the power out and parallel charge/monitoring lines of a typical LiPo 3S battery...

https://homemade-circuits.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/index-2.jpg

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#6

Re: Batteries on Telephones, Laptops, etc.

03/16/2018 2:59 PM

I would say that there are a great many batteries that employ the smaller interconnected battery technique. for example, here is a picture of a 9 volt battery and how it is constructed.

And here is a A23 battery which is a stack of button cell batteries.

From your posts and replies, it seems that you're trying to ummmmm make a battery charge faster?

You can charge any battery faster, however in doing so you're risking fire, explosion electrical shock because you will be applying a higher voltage or current to accomplish the task which is outside of the manufacturers recommended specifications. Also in doing so, you're shortening the rated lifespan of said battery. There are certain charging parameters for every rechargeable battery and the batteries have been tested to be safe at that charging rate.

Maybe if you detailed what you are specifically trying to accomplish, we may be able to assist!?!?

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#7

Re: Batteries on Telephones, Laptops, etc.

03/16/2018 4:08 PM

Believe it or not, you can charge batteries in series just as fast as charging them in parallel. Charging 5 batteries in series requires 5 times the voltage but the same current as charging one. Charging 5 batteries in parallel requires 5 times the current but the same voltage as charging one.

When charging a bank of batteries in series, some care needs to be taken that they are all equally charged. Ideally, each cell should get the same charge, but cells age differently.

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#14

Re: Batteries on Telephones, Laptops, etc.

03/19/2018 12:21 PM

The one weak feature of a parallel battery is that there is always one weakest cell. When it goes flat, the other cells throw it into a reversed charge that wrecks the cell. Usually, paralleled cells have a diode either paralleled with the cell to prevent reversed charging or a diode in series to block reversed current flow in the cell. Either adds cost to the battery pack. Also, there is usually no cost benefit to smaller individual cells once you add the extra packaging and interconnections.

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