Previous in Forum: Define "Irony"   Next in Forum: Non-Newtonian Fluid Under Pressure
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73

The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/02/2018 3:48 PM

It seems that every time I have worked for a large company there is at least one engineer who tries really hard to look busy but in reality he accomplishes very little. At the same time, that "Wally" has an attitude about being interrupted from his surfing on the internet. The department manager is his buddy. Is it hopeless to expect an ethical response from this "Wally"?

Please excuse my reference to Dilbert, the cartoon strip from which Wally emerges as the most useless engineer in the department.

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: backlash lazy engineers
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
2
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#1

Re: The problems with large engineering departments

05/02/2018 3:57 PM

Is it hopeless to expect an ethical response from this "Wally"?

No more hopeless than to expect an ethical action from Catbert, the "evil director of human resources" in the Dilbert comic strip.

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#2

Re: The problems with large engineering departments

05/02/2018 4:47 PM

What can you do, these things happen.

When you come across someone like this try and work around him but when you do need to work with him make sure you document requests and responses in email form rather than verbal and always try and be positive, polite and operate within the boundaries of you role.

Others have informed me that including his manager in on correspondence if at first you don't succeed, then his manager's manager, etc is a good tactic, but again caution needs to be taken that you don't portray yourself as a 'stirrer' or someone who cannot handle a simple problem themselves.

In the end he will likely doom himself and be relocated or fired. Getting stressed about it or starting a vendetta against the person to get him fired will likely backfire on you, so don't.

When they post here on CR4, well you can be a bit more confrontational and rude, but again within reason.

Also, there is a difference between lazy and acting unethical. Wally is a clear case of lazy, while Catbert is unethical.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
5
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#3

Re: The problems with large engineering departments

05/02/2018 8:59 PM

Unless he is interfering with your projects, or distracting others to the point that their output is suffering and if you are not in a supervisory position, I'd say that you are wasting time worrying about something not in your control.

I've been there myself and I just made sure that I did my job to the best of my ability and did not let the non-performer affect my work.

Let your conscience dictate your actions.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Glasgow, Free Republic of Scotland
Posts: 360
Good Answers: 30
#4

Re: The problems with large engineering departments

05/03/2018 1:13 AM

Yes

Follow the lyn path

On a related note Mordac the Preventer of Information Services is an amateur!

__________________
Free advice guaranteed or your money back
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#5

Re: The problems with large engineering departments

05/03/2018 2:39 AM

As a departmental head... no one will ever tell you what's really happening, and as a worker in a department, you realize the boss has no idea what goes on...
Hmmm
'Twas probably ever thus
Del
(Maybe the boss is sh@gging Wally's wife...? )

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#9
In reply to #5

Re: The problems with large engineering departments

05/03/2018 10:07 AM

you realize the boss has no idea what goes on...

Especially with the 'boss' that surrounds himself with 'yes' men that basks in his glowing warmth...

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#6

Re: The problems with large engineering departments

05/03/2018 6:20 AM

As a young engineer I joined a hydraulics manufacturer as the only electrical engineer to design and procure electrical control systems for the hydraulic equipment. I was assigned to my boss (a CNC engineer maintaining the machining centres in production) because he needed to control more staff in order qualify for the next higher pay grade. He didn't want to know what I was doing and I even had to write my own 6 monthly performance reviews. His boss (Head of the Development Department) was a man who had been promoted beyond his capacity and the nearest you ever got to an answer was a "definate maybe". I don't think he was capable of assessing an expenses claim and I put through many (legitimate) items that most other managers would have baulked at. That left me reporting to the Technical Director who had two years to go to retirement and who's strategy was that if he didn't make a decision for the next two years he couldn't make a wrong decision so they couldn't throw him out. I worked in an open plan office of about a hundred people including hydraulics engineers, statisticians, stress and structural engineers, a screw propeller designer, draughtsmen, tracers, support clerks and the print room operators. One draughtsman spent all his time drawing plans for cottage building and conversion work for himself and the company directors. A clerk spent more time organising his holidays than doing his job. A Deputy Manager did nothing but study drawings and specifications (he had a photographic memory and if you asked him for a 42 mm long cotter pin with a 7o taper he could reel off the 9 digit part number immediately (very useful)). We had a tea lady who was sick so often that we also had a rota for who made the tea when she was missing.

The management had no idea what was going on. Myself and a hydraulics engineers snook off for 5 days (if we had told the high ups they would have vetoed it) to a potential customer and designed a bilge and ballast handling system for a marine engineer who was clueless. We manipulated the safety factors so that our company could use size 3 actuators while all our competitors would need to quote size 4 actuators to meet the specification. Then we bullied our sales engineers into getting the enquiry from a Japanese shipyard which resulted in a £1.3 million order. (a big order in the 1970s) The Technical Director didn't even know that we had quoted the job and nearly had apoplexy when I told him that there was £80,000 of intrinsically safe computer control equipment within the order.

Because we ere left to do our own thing it was a great training ground and I really enjoyed working there. Remarkably the company traded world wide very successfully, I only left because I was head hunted to run a control engineering company.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Hmmm...

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 567
Good Answers: 29
#7

Re: The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/03/2018 7:51 AM

I've found that the "Wallies" generally get their comeuppance eventually. In good times their lack of effort/productivity is tolerated and seemingly overlooked. But managers know who does the work. As soon as the budget gets tightened or the contract goes away and the layoffs come, Wally usually gets shown the door.

Unfortunately, I've also found that the larger the company, the longer they'll last.

I like lyn's response. Don't let them interfere. Get your own work done. Be productive. People notice and will reward you.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73
#8
In reply to #7

Re: The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/03/2018 9:51 AM

I thrive on productivity. I've always had great results with improving efficiency on processes no matter what they consisted of. I have a hard time finding opportunity to contribute meaningful effort but you are right in that people notice. So far, the rewards have generally been pretty poor. In my experience, one is more appreciated after they have left than when they were present. Some people are just more lucky.

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Hmmm...

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 567
Good Answers: 29
#11
In reply to #8

Re: The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/03/2018 3:20 PM

There is no doubt that simple luck plays into it. Opportunities need to exist before one can take advantage of them. Whether you are lucky or not, it's good to end the day knowing you've done your best. My worst days are when I have no one to blame but myself for not getting something done. I try to use that thought as a motivator. I like good days!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3990
Good Answers: 144
#10

Re: The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/03/2018 10:51 AM

Small engineering departments have more issues than you can shake a stick at.

Time and money aren't always available at the same time.

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77
#12

Re: The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/03/2018 6:26 PM

We learn in family therapy that each member of a family adopts a "roll". Some take the roll of victim, others martyr, others still the helper, the tattler, the go getter, etc. It is fascinating to watch how families develop these rolls and how they rarely change in the remainder of the persons life, the roll they adopt as a child becomes the person they are.

I have seen this same thing develop in departments in the few large companies I have worked for. You should see he QC dept here. LoL I can't keep up.

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - EE from the the Wilds of Pa.

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2603
Good Answers: 63
#13

Re: The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/07/2018 9:08 AM

After 47 years of working in various types of engineering and companies, I can say that is the way life is. Accept it or avoid it. Dilbert is very close to reality, with a few minor glitches, as cats and dogs...well you get the point.

__________________
Remember when reading my post: (-1)^½ m (2)^½
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#14
In reply to #13

Re: The Problems with Large Engineering Departments

05/07/2018 9:17 AM

Dilbert is a reflection of reality.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 14 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Doorman (1); jack of all trades (1); JE in Chicago (1); jhhassociates (1); Lo_Volt (2); lyn (1); NotUrOrdinaryJoe (1); phoenix911 (2); Phys (1); rashavarek (1); simonsd (1); user-deleted-1105 (1)

Previous in Forum: Define "Irony"   Next in Forum: Non-Newtonian Fluid Under Pressure

Advertisement