FIBC Material Question

You'll get opinions, and some web site suggestions here, and a few "this is the best product ever," but no authoritative, user sources. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Your best bet is to look at the Products & Suppliers listings here and get proposals from the people who actually produce it and have field experience with their products.

If you use a large enough quantity, suppliers will be glad to help you.

Thank you very much. I will do that.

Well 2 things come to mind immediately, are these bags designed for this application, and why not just build a roof over this to provide shade? Maybe plastic barrels would be better for this application....

https://www.tencateindustrialfabrics.com/en/specialty-fabrics/your-specialty-fabric

Hi, thank you for your suggestions. Our bag is patented and portable, that's why we use fibcs. They are custom made but we're looking for more durable material to use. In some installations, the end users have built roofs over them. This is the updated picture of the original photo i attached. In this photo, the end users created a roof over each filter. The problem is that we can't control how the end user sets up the filter environment, as that is usually site specific.

Living in the South as I do, I can tell you no fabric lasts very long in the sun...You say the fabric failed, but you didn't say how long it lasted....? These look like temporary installations, the question is, how temporary? Vinyl coated polyester seems to hold up the best, then it comes down to fabric weight....10oz-40oz I would contact a specialty supplier and see what they have to offer...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_coated_polyester

https://www.cdc.gov/safewater/sand-filtration.html

Thank you so much. The fail was after 18 months abandoned. Ideally, we want them to last for 3 years. I will look into the links you've sent. Much appreciated!

5 years should be no problem....do you know the weight of the fabric you are using?

Hi, here is the spec sheet for the material our manufacturer is currently using.

Your material seems extremely light weight....imo it should be at least twice that, and I would be more comfortable at 3 times...

You have been so helpful, thank you. I've been on the TenCate website and filled out the contact us form. I look forward to speaking to them tomorrow.

So the weight - 270gsm? should be at least 800gsm, is that correct?

The best composition would offer a mold and algae retardant as well as the UV protectant

Well of course it will depend on the fabric and coating chosen as to the exact weight and thickness....so I'm confident that the Tencate team can flesh this out for you....and we must take price into consideration, but yes I think 600-800gsm is in the ballpark...

Thank you so much for your help. I am also confident that the TenCate team could help with this. I hope we aren't priced out of the solution. We sell our filters to communities that don't have sustained access to clean water for drinking, cooking and bathing.

Nearly Free Sand Makes a Great Solar Shield

First, use an internal, top-entry plumbing column with a small velcro closure so you can extract your plumbing from each individual filter for simple (at workshop) repair and for better portability. Use siphon action to bring each separate output to vertical standing pipe, gravity fed manifolds. Design this external manifold so no single siphon air infiltration event can defeat the aggregate operation.

Second, design two concentric bags for each tank. Now the outer bag will be exposed to the sun but the inner one will be shaded by the outer bag and by sand or other fill between the bags. This also shields the inner bag from snags from people,
animals, wind, etc. Both bags can now be lighter weight material since they both contribute to the strength of the tank.

To assemble, place about two inches of sand in the bottom of the outer bag. Insert the inner bag into the outer bag and add sand to both at the same time while keeping the sides upright at least as high as the current sand level. Remember to insert your plumbing assembly into the inner bag at the desired elevation. When you reach the top of both bags and close the lids you overlap the velcro collar surrounding the plumbing column with the velcro already sewn into the bags at the plumbing hole. Cover the tops with a couple of inches of sand held in place by straw mats fastened around the outer bag for additional sun protection.

Doing it this way allows you to design the inner bag with strength but perhaps no sun protection and the outer bag with sun protection but less strength. You have therefore modularized your software(bags) to optimize for lower cost. There are many possible variations. Your inner bag can have all the water handling features(algae control, good leak resistance, ...) Your outer bag does not even need to be water resistant but just has to hold in the sand which will do a great job of protecting the inner bag from the sun. The straw mats might even serve as the outer bag if the locals can weave them well enough to hold the sand. Placing the filter tanks touching one another can reduce the strength required in the outer mats and bringing the plumbing in from the top would allow a large tank farm to use only a single outer bag(mat) to surround a circular group of inner tanks. These configurations can all be customized by the local operators.

For more permanent installations, simply add portland cement to the intra-bag sand to strengthen the matrix in which you hang the filter bags. Voila, a multi-decade installation to be used over and over again by inserting your new inner bag and plumbing columns into the cement sun shield. Add just an inch or two of sand on the top and your inner bags last like they are indoors because they are. If some bag springs a leak, remove your plumbing column for that filter and get the local kids to
dig out the sand and the inner bag for just that one filter. Note that the cement may grab the first inner bag you use so you may want to use about a one inch larger inner bag if you intend to add the portland cement. That extra inch should allow you to use the standard size real inner bag for consistency with your fully portable inner bag setup additional capacity extensions. If you abandon a cement enhanced site, remove all plumbing and inner bags and bury the cement honeycomb chunk completely with sand so it will be intact upon your eventual possible return even many decades later.

You may want some kind of stool inside the tops of your tanks to support the lids if your filters require some air and/or water above the wet sand. You can consider eliminating or reducing the size of this top cavity as much as you can to get more
bang for your buck out of the inner filter volume.

thewildotter

Cement Enhanced Honeycomb Filter Matrix

The portland cement you add to the intra-bag sand should be completely dry until you have a full matrix of cement enhanced filters. When your matrix is complete sprinkle water over the entire matrix and make sure it stays wet and does not erode until you are confident that your matrix has developed adequate strength. Then you can cease wetting the matrix. I recommend hexagonal close packed arrays of bags to minimize material requirements and maximize strength. The top edges of the bags will then resemble a honeycomb. Be sure to plan your output manifold locations before locating your honeycomb matrix or you may need a lot of pipes for your output siphons. Planning maintenance walkways in advance is also a good practice. Even plain sand installations will benefit from these practices but using best practices becomes really important if you add portland cement.

thewildotter

hello thewildotter,

thank you for that amazingly detailed suggestion! I am trying to wrap my head around it and visualize it. I will share this with my colleagues and very much appreciate your input. Very generous with your time and thoughts -

How about a UV protection 'tent' or wall on each side?

Thank you Stuart21 for your suggestions!

We've tried a UV wrap but it wasn't sustainable over time. A tent or wall would have to be site specific and part of a local installation - which we can't really enforce. Ideally, we'd like to keep it as simple as possible and find the best materials that can do the job. I think it's out there but I am a layman and am unfamiliar with the necessary specifics to articulate - I just know what I need the material to do :-)

Google Layfield geotextile. We have them here in Canada; I don't know where else they are but they do liners for landfills etc., and I know they have a range of dewatering bags that might fit your purpose.

thank you very much, I will call Layfield today as well.

<...Seeking the strongest woven PP with a UV protectant for outdoor use in harsh conditions...>

Actually, no. The post is simply a way of getting others to do the donkey work.

Is it possible to have a second later of UV resistant, absorbent or reflective material over the bags to shade/protect them from the UV?

It is possible but there would be a moisture problem between the outer layer and the bag because of the condensation. Over time, mold and mildew would occur. but thank you very much

Hi waterwater,

The outer UV protection would not need to be waterproof and could be open at the bottom to allow good air circulation, it could even be a sleeve, open top and bottom with a separate UV resistant cover on top.

Your problem probably falls to the use of ASTM D-4355 as your guide to the UV resistance of the fabric. It's for geotechnical fabrics that are covered in final use so as to have limited exposure to direct sunshine, most manufacturers include the following caveat:

"...To minimize UV degradation, project specifications should be written to limit (direct, uncovered) exposure to a maximum of 14 days...", from here and here.

The standard is based on 500 hours of UV exposure with a limit of a 50% loss of the material's original strength. My guess is that your fabric cracks appear mainly on the southern side of the bags, and below the level of the sand.

There are other standards to consider, you may need to tell your supplier how your use of the fabric deviates from the test conditions so that the proper material and UV inhibitors will be specified.

Thank you very much for that information. I was just informed of ISO 21898 as well. Yes you're right and we need to adjust our bag material specs accordingly. thanks again!

Dear RamConsult,

Thank you very much for the links as well. Our material is rated as ASTM D-4355 test result 700. I have reached out to TenCate but haven't heard back yet. I'll try again today.

thanks again!

Most plastic/nylon material is better UV resistant when it's black rather than white.

Could make a big enough change for little extra cost.

Thank you, yes, we may have to change the color of the bags for added UV protection

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