When is Enough, Enough?

This is the bane of owning a classic car...it's a money pit...I would frequent those sites that have similar interests and search for the best way to go...best to upgrade as this is not an investment type of purchase...so you adapt the most common parts from the most plentiful car part pool...The cooling is critical... I would get a replacement, but keep the original and figure out how to fix it...that way you have back-up...A car like this means a garage full of back-up parts...

https://repairpal.com/problems/jaguar/vanden+plas

http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/jaguar/vanden_plas/2000/

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/new-member-area-intro-must-5/2000-xj8-vanden-plas-problems-4065/

https://www.ebay.com/b/Radiators-Parts-for-Jaguar-Vanden-Plas/33602/bn_1411923

Sweet....gotta love that wood grain trim...

Depending on where specifically the tank is leaking, you may be able to effect a DIY repair.

The plastic tank is probably a glass filled thermoplastic, injection molded part.

If it is a seam, and is joined to a brass of metal part, a picture would be nice.

Pressures on the order of 15 PSI are normal and not too high, but differential expansion rates need to be considered since it gets hot, then cools.

Depending on the urgency of the repair it's a thought.

I have some practical experience with this sort of thing, and there are a few others here who do as well.

If you want to pursue that, get back to the forum, or PM me with more details and a pic or two.

https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Radiator-Tank-Repair-Kit/dp/B007K6VJQ6/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_469_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WTN65MF6QKAP6T72T9CJ

There appears to be at least 3 different nylons used for welding that have different melting points, starting at 225°F up 750°F...this one here uses the low temp, the one from polyvance uses a midgrade like 350 or so and amazon also sells the higher temp welding rods...be aware that the higher the temp nylon requires a higher wattage welder...also might consider a wire brush for surface prep after alcohol cleaning...and preheating the area around the weld is important...

Brave Sir Robin: Woody's has had the radiator for 8 days, and he now tells me he's sold the sheet metal brake to bend a metal tank. (Which I would have preferred). I will call around and see if I can get brass end caps made for the aluminum center.

Solar Eagle: I have been soldering since I was a pup, I think I shall give this a try, the only tools I don't have are the radiator repair kit and the tear drop shaped wood cutter. I also have an ancient giant soldering iron type tool used for tire tread cutting. Nice videos too. Preheating before welding makes me think of cast iron repairs on the old 8N and 860 Ford tractors. I have started looking into Jaguar forums, but I have a hard time typing without an American accent

Lyn: I wish this had brass ends, I could already have it done (and polished). The core is aluminum, and the ends are thermoplastic, I just don't know what recipe.. I also have an old Stant radiator pressure tester, but need to adapt it to one of the hoses since radiator caps have evolved into threaded plastic configuration. It's leaking at the seam 1/3 of the way up on the right side, which is the hot side. The flow from the engine enters just above the leak. It starts leaking when I start the engine. Like I said previously, the radiator is still at the shop so no pictures yet.

I thank you all for the quick and informative replies!

Found a used one $250.

https://www.partrequest.com/auto-parts-detail/jaguar-xj8-vandenplas-1998-to-2003-radiator-mnc4190ah-factory-223174472251

https://www.partrequest.com/catalog/radiators-and-parts/jaguar

Replacing the plastic tank sounds like an ideal task for 3D printing. I wouldn't be surprised if a 3D printer with a large enough stage for printing the whole tank would be cheaper than buying a new tank.

Most FDM based printers have a lot of porosity in the print and would not hold a fluid or gas without some sort of post treatment. For ABS this would be easy as you can use acetone but I don't think ABS would withstand the temperature the part would see. You would likely need to use a high temperature plastic which may be above the temperature range of many print heads and have other issues.

Higher end and more expensive printers have an enclosed heated print area (basically an oven) that allow you to print with higher temperature materials. The issue of plastic warping as it cools becomes a big issue with some materials and is expensive to counteract but not impossible.

SLA liquid resin based methods may yield a better part and also have high temperature materials available, but the printers tend to be costly.

Yes, I know most printed products are porous to gas and liquids. Fiberglass fabric is a very porous material, yet it is used to store all sorts of volatile fluids once the correct resin and catalyst get added. Unlike fiberglass fabric, a 3D print out will hold a shape while the resin cures.

Using a 3D printer to make a form to cast a firerglass resin part would work despite being a bit complicated. You wouldn't even need a large printer since you could make the form in multiple parts that bolt together. If you go that route it would also be possible to use the print to cast a metal part. Not easy but do able.

Stratasys uses the polyjet to make castings for carbon composite mfg parts but that would be expensive.

In terms of print directly, the only FDM printer I know that would make some sort of fabric plastic part is a markforged printer that uses carbon and nylon and is $$

An SLA printer uses a similar type of resin that fiberglass uses but is UV cured so it might be possible to integrate it with fiberglass for added strength but I have never seen it done.

This is getting off topic so I will stop now.

Unless MikeMack747 is handy at programming and has a 3D printer, this may be a dream that never sees reality.

Unlimited time and resources, maybe.

I'd try to patch it first, but what do I know?

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Harbor Freight has some plastic welding guns you might want to look at.

A company I worked for years ago made chemical tanks using sheet PVC and polypro. The guys who knew how to weld used these guns like artists.

Hello,

Try using liquid steel the 2 part mix type or Marinetek i think its called very much the same stuff but the mine one may be better ?

Good Luck !

Alec

Marine-Tex is a creamy paste consistency that can be applied on vertical or horizontal surfaces, easily fills gaps, and can be shaped to rebuild damaged components. Marine-Tex paste provides waterproof repairs that can be used with fiberglass tape or cloth to bridge holes and reinforce structural repairs as needed. Emergency and permanent repairs to machinery and equipment, hulls, decks, stripped fasteners, piping and tanks are all easily accomplished with the mighty repair kit. Marine-Tex can be sanded or ground to shape, tapped and drilled, and finished with most common paints and coatings.

Technical Info
Marine-Tex is a heavy-duty structural epoxy, used to repair aluminum, fiberglass and wooden boats, reinstall loose or stripped fasteners, permanently bond dissimilar metals without galvanic corrosion, and fill gouges in wood, metal and fiberglass, making repaired areas stronger than before.

Marine-Tex is an excellent choice for repairing problem areas located below the waterline. Marine-Tex is resistant to water and many chemicals.

COLORS: White and Gray. Marine-Tex Gray is recommended for machinery repairs. Marine-Tex White can be tinted with ITW Fibre-Glass Evercoat's coloring agents for fiberglass and wood applications. Be sure to use only a small amount of coloring agent (no more than 5% of the total volume of epoxy.)

PACKAGING: Marine-Tex White and Gray are available in convenient kits, 2 oz., 14 oz., quart and gallon.

COVERAGE: For 2 oz. kit, 17 square inches at 1/8" thick. For 14 oz. kit, 124 square inches at 1/8" thick. Maximum applied thickness is 1 1/2 inches.

MIXING RATIO: 5 parts epoxy resin to 1 part hardener — by volume. (When mixing by weight, the ratio is 6.3 parts resin to 1 part hardener.) Always keep the epoxy at room temperature before mixing.

CONSISTENCY OF MIXED EPOXY: Thick, creamy no-sag putty, easily applied.
POT LIFE (WORKING TIME): At 72F, 30 minutes if mixed and spread thin across mixing board. (A lump of material, or higher temperatures, may generate a 15 - 20 minute working time due to the heat the epoxy creates within itself.)

CURE TIME: 24 hours at a constant temperature of 72F. Lower temperatures will create longer cure times. It is not recommended to apply the product in temperatures below 55F.

Mixing Info
Before starting project, store Marine-Tex at 70°F for ease of mixing and application. Read instructions on labels or instruction sheets inserted in packaged kits. The temperature of the work area must be at least 55°F, and this minimum temperature must be maintained for 24 hours while the epoxy cures.

Work in a well-ventilated area. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. Wear rubber or vinyl gloves and eye protection. Wash hands immediately after use.

Surface preparation is the key to epoxy adhesion. Remove all contaminants (dirt, oil, grease) with acetone or lacquer thinner. Sand area, then remove grit to improve adhesion.

Marine-Tex is a high-strength structural epoxy, designed for convenient proportioning and mixing — by volume — in a ratio of 5 parts epoxy resin to 1 part catalyst/hardener. Example: 5 level spoonfuls of epoxy resin to 1 level spoonful of hardener. The nominal variation in proportioning the two components is 10 percent. Excess hardener / catalyst will not accelerate cure time, and it can reduce the strength of the cured epoxy. (If this epoxy is mixed by weight, the ratio is 6.3 grams of epoxy to 1 gram of hardener.)

Mix the properly proportioned components with a putty stick or hard plastic squeegee on a broad flat surface, wood, cardboard or plastic. Mix only enough for 15 or 20 minutes of nominal working time. After components are thoroughly mixed, spread your mixture into a long thin line to ensure a streak-free consistency and to provide you with maximum working time. Near the end of its working time, the mixture will become very warm, and it should be discarded.

COMPRESSIVE STRENGTH*:
Gray - 13,000 PSI (910 Kg/Cm2)
White - 8,700 PSI (610 Kg/Cm2)
ADHESION SHEAR STRENGTH*:
Gray - 1,800 PSI (126 Kg/Cm2)
White - 2,300 PSI (160 Kg/Cm2)
CHEMICAL RESISTANCE:
Most common acids, alkalies and hydrocarbons.
TENSILE STRENGTH*:
Both White and Gray - 4,000 PSI (280 Kg/Cm2)

*All strengths are dependent upon make-up of substrate and surface preparation.

DOWNLOAD SAFETY DATA SHEET

Try searching for UK second hand spares web-sites or Jaguar specialists (private not dealerships) in the UK.

You may be able to find a replacement at a reasonable price that can be shipped out to you.

Alec Ryals: I'm concerned about using an epoxy on the thermoplastic due to differing thermal expansion rates and the epoxy's ability to withstand the radiator temperatures. The datasheet states that it might work:

Q: How high of a temperature can Marine-Tex withstand?

A:Depends on pressure and conditions. Up to 250°F constant temperature in a dry environment, with spikes up to 300-325°F.

It may not be compatible: Q:What will Marine-Tex NOT stick to Plastics like polyethylene and polypropylene, and also any unclean, oily, greasy, or otherwise contaminated surface.

Redfred: 3D printing is out of the question, I don't have the equipment or a drawing I could supply to someone who does. What I need is a replicator like that sliding door apparatus on Star Trek.

I will probably try a warrantied used part I found 3 hours north of me (They also have the interior parts I need for the console and glove box door). I also want to try a repair on the existing unit just because I love to fix things.

I wish you luck in finding a usable replacement. The 3-D printer approach is certainly not a frugal approach for just one repair, particularly if you don't already have a printer. However, to keep a 19-year-old, mildly exotic vehicle on the road a 3D printer might eventually pay for itself.

This company seems to have many repair adhesives and fillers:

http://www.itwadhesives.com/brands/devcon#

I'm sure if you ask them they could give you a recommendation.

Thanks to everyone. You folks are the best source for wisdom and experience on all things engineered.

Thanks especially ton Solar Eagle and Lyn for the links to the plastic welding equipment.

On an alternate tack, I reminded of a co-worker, back in the early seventies, who owned 4 MG's.

One that ran well, another that only semi-ran, and the other two for parts...

If it's a simple hole in the header or bottom tank, possibly drill the hole to a standard size and then seal using a threaded fastener of appropriate size.

I just received notice that my order of a new radiator has been "dispatched". It cost me £475.20. I should have it by Tuesday Oct 23. I'll get by Harbor Freight and check on a plastic welder this weekend.