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Heat Pump Rant

01/29/2019 5:20 PM

Two years ago I bought a small house in Tennessee with a non-running heat pump. The first technician said, "Yeah, it's not running, low on gas. It will cost $400 in gas to fire it up for a test." The compressor would operate, the blower would run. Older mercury type thermostat, simple operating system. I called another company, and the owner/salesman came out, took one look at my unit from the porch and said, "Yeah, you need a new heat pump" Winter was coming, and I didn't want to live in a new place with a maybe heating system, not knowing how quickly I could get service once winter has set in. The house had no backup heating system. So I purchased a new $6000 Goodman heat pump. The Bryant would have cost $7000. No experience in this equipment, only had oil or gas heat before, and separate air conditioners. The unit runs fine for two years, and then gets moody this year. The digital thermostat shows "thermostat not communicating with heat pump", "outside temperature sensor not connected", "auxiliary heat on", and such. I call the supplier, and the mechanic says the blower motor has failed, all my fault for not changing filters often enough, and closing off the basement filter intake. I wasn't using the basement for sleeping, so I closed off the filter. The upstairs filter was easily visible in the hall, and I cleaned or replaced it regularly. None the less, for a $400 installation fee he replaced the warranted blower motor. He could not figure out the cause of the error messages. He would reset the system and go away, billing me for a service call. After a further $400 in service calls to reset the system, he still could not find the cause of the error messages. I went online and learned how to reset the system myself, simply turn the breaker off for five minutes, no magic there. I proceeded to observe the system, and soon found out that the outside sensor was not firmly plugged into the board. Once fully plugged in, the sensor error messages ended. Still the unit would go to auxiliary heat and refuse to use the heat pump. I noticed that sometimes when I removed the outside cover on the heat pump it would run for a while. Seemed like a loose wire somewhere. To tidy up the outside board and control area, I started to remove an un-used harness stuffed behind the control board. Suddenly, the unit started running, little LEDs on the board all going to 'OK' mode. AHA. Looking closely, a large wire from a large cap above the board was right there, plugged into a terminal on the board. I removed the harness, and carefully jiggled the large connector. I didn't seem loose. I pressed it fully onto the board, and the system has been running fine for a week now, cycling between heat pump and aux heat as the temp cycles above and below 35 degrees, my control point. To get to the rant, I believe today's average heat pump technicians are not trained and educated enough to service these new artificial intelligence systems. The system refers to itself as 'adaptive intelligence' to set the blower fan speed and operate the thermostat. Way above the average guy working for an air conditioner company. When I was servicing apartment air conditioner systems it was a fairly straight forward setup of relays and contactors. The most sophisticated part might be the anticipator setting, and understanding how to set it. I expect the average repairman seeing a board with a microprocessor on it with chips, miniaturization,and printed circuits is overwhelmed. I got lucky and finally found a loose wire. The intelligent thermostat could not diagnose a loose wire. Searching online I see many customers having to replace boards, even whole systems to sort out these over-complicated heat pumps. If I knew then what I know now, I would have stayed with the older, simpler to operate system. The coils on the old system were still clean, and everything was in running condition, just low on gas.

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#1

Re: Heat pump rant

01/29/2019 5:45 PM

When I was in the business any time there was new technology coming in the product lines we were selling they had a training seminar we would attend to learn how to diagnose and repair the new systems and the service rep was just a phone call away...if the problem couldn’t be solved over the phone the rep would come to the job site...I don’t think you are dealing with a reputable company...

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#2

Re: Heat pump rant

01/29/2019 7:52 PM

1. Heat pump in Tenn?

2. $6,000.00 for a small house unit?

3. Was there no natural gas or propane tank/unit available? Heat stove? Fireplace?

It sounds like you are a victim of rubes who are just there to take your money.

See how nicely punctuation helps?

1. Heat pump in Tenn?2. $6,000.00 for a small house unit?3. Was there no natural gas or propane tank/unit available? Heat stove? Fireplace?It sounds like you are a victim of rubes who are just there to take your money.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Heat pump rant

01/30/2019 2:23 PM

1. Plenty of heat pumps all around. Only a few large propane tanks visible, city gas available in the city.

2. Yeah, I should have gotten more bids, but was afraid every bid would include a $80 service call fee. I'm good at fixing stuff, but not all that savvy in buying stuff. A good salesman has me at his mercy. You gotta think most people only buy one furnace in their lifetime, even if they buy more than one house.

3. When I type a reply, I make paragraphs. When I see the 'Preview', the paragraph breaks are gone. Dunno. I'm trying here to see if it separates the paragraphs.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Heat pump rant

01/30/2019 8:26 PM

Heat pumps are OK for cooling (it's an AC unit) but gas can't be beat for heating.

My Arizona heat pump would never work in the Minn. house where it's -22°F as I type.

It was 74°F here in AZ today.

Sounds like they "saw you coming."

I'd threaten the bozos who defrauded you for bogus service calls!

Your original statement, backed up with documentation would make a strong case.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Heat pump rant

01/30/2019 10:05 PM

He is well within the territory for air-to-air heat pump usage with an average mean temperature of 56°F....with 2-stage heating, that means below about 32°F the second stage heat usually kicks in....the second stage is generally electric heat strips, but they make them in gas and oil also...but the average low temperature in Jan is about 25°F, so not much heat is needed generally speaking...You do want to mach sure your insulation is maxed out though...

https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/bristol/tennessee/united-states/ustn0055

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: Heat pump rant

01/31/2019 3:52 PM

Isn’t the carbon footprint for a heat pump less than gas?

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Heat pump rant

01/31/2019 3:50 PM

I used to have that on my iPad,... I had to physically type in ASCII code for new lines, italics, bold, ... then the programer updated cr4... finally and got it fixed.

I hear now cr4 programmers are working on my grammar.

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#3

Re: Heat pump rant

01/29/2019 8:45 PM

https://www.homeadvisor.com/c.Air-Conditioning.Bristol.TN.-12002.html

You probably did need a new unit...you obviously had a freon leak, using the old R-22, which is now discontinued and therefore hideously expensive...Leaking most likely from the evaporator coil, non-repairable...Probably close to $2k for the repair, not worth it...I don't believe you could burn up the blower motor by shutting off part of your return, but it is possible...The $6k price tag can not be determined to be a fair price without knowing the difficulty of the install and model of the unit...but you should have gotten 3 estimates on the installation, using the exact same model number units...Companies don't usually charge another service charge for a call-back, which is to say on the same problem because it wasn't fixed properly the first time, however sometimes it was fixed properly and another problem has occurred that presents the same....slippery slope there...$0.02

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#4

Re: Heat Pump Rant

01/30/2019 11:18 AM

Thanks so much for the replies, fellas, I feel much better now. For any more work, I am going to call another company, hoping to still get warranty on parts. I don't know the finer points of how the warranty works. I just think things today get too complicated.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Heat Pump Rant

01/30/2019 11:40 AM

The warranty is properly stated on your proposal and sales agreement...and vary from equipment manufacturers and contractors...but you should have got at least 5 years parts and labor....We used to give 10...

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Heat Pump Rant

01/30/2019 11:52 AM

It is hard to keep up with new technology on heat pumps and virtually everything else.

Google is a good resource for information.

You are not alone with problems.

Someone has had the same trouble as you have,and have posted solutions.

It is especially helpful on automotive problems.

For instance,my son came to visit,and when he left,his Alero would not start.

It would turn over,but no fuel pressure.Fuel pump would not run.

Plenty of suspects here.I went to Google first.The car has a passive anti-theft system,and it had forgotten the key code.Solution was to insert the key and wait 5 minutes for it to reinitialize.

Problem solved.

My philosophy:If you can't fix it,,Google it.

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#9

Re: Heat Pump Rant

01/30/2019 9:45 PM

The technician blaming the motor failure on dirty filters is nonsense. Dirty filters reduce flow - reduced flow means lower power requirement, so unless your motor failed due to being "under" loaded I don't know what he was on about. (Assumption - centrifugal blower)

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#13

Re: Heat Pump Rant

01/31/2019 6:59 PM

You tube undoubtedly has several videos on your unit. You might become famous by making a video of your repair.

There may even be an owners forum. Failing that, there is always CR4's Solar Eagle, simply amazing what he discovers.

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#14

Re: Heat Pump Rant

01/31/2019 11:09 PM

I'll see your rant, and raise you one. I think you take it too easy on the repairmen and to hard on the "adaptive intelligence."

"The intelligent thermostat could not diagnose a loose wire."

"The digital thermostat shows "thermostat not communicating with heat pump", "outside temperature sensor not connected", "auxiliary heat on", and such."

That sounds like a pretty accurate description of a loose wire to me.

"To get to the rant, I believe today's average heat pump technicians are not trained and educated enough to service these new artificial intelligence systems."

What is there about a new artificial intelligence system that makes it hard to understand that "outside temperature sensor not connected"?

"I call the supplier, and the mechanic says the blower motor has failed, all my fault for not changing filters often enough, and closing off the basement filter intake."

So based on the error messages saying "thermostat not communicating with heat pump", "outside temperature sensor not connected", "auxiliary heat on", the guy on the phone says your blower motor has failed. To me that sounds like he just made up some kind of expensive repair totally unrelated to the error messages. Am I missing something here?

There. End of rant. Glad to get that off my chest.

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#15

Re: Heat Pump Rant

02/02/2019 7:14 PM

Thanks to all on the input. Next time I'm going a totally different route for HVAC. Probably gas furnace and window air conditioners. This would keep furnace airflow off the air conditioner coils, much less filter concerns, and make air conditioner service and replacement simple.

When my unit is on heat pump the fan blows at it's slowest speed. When on aux heat, it blows medium speed. I expect high is for air conditioning. I think this is why folks complain of heat pumps blowing cool air, they may have a one speed blower, and the rate may be too fast for the heat pump to deliver warm enough air. Therefore, newer units have three speeds so the heat pump feels warm at the slow fan speed. This makes for a more complicated 'intelligent' system. The owner's manual mentions the 'adaptive intelligence' deciding on fan speed and how many aux heaters to use, etc.

All of this smart system makes for a very daunting challenge for service men. In trying to sort out the microprocessor they may miss a simple loose wire. My unit is still running fine.

P.S. double entering makes separate paragraphs.

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