Previous in Forum: Max. Motor Size for MV MCC 4.16 400A Contactor   Next in Forum: Timed Light Switch
Close
Close
Close
5 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1

Three Diesel Generators Synchronizing With National Grid Problem

02/15/2019 7:58 AM

Dear Gents, we had three caterpillar diesel generators 750 KVA (model: 3412) with electronic fuel pump (PEEC)which are synchronizing with each other and synchronize with the national grid for load sharing and load transfer through WOODWARD EGCP-2 8406-120 control panels but during the last past days we notice the following problem: - Generator address No.2 •Without synchronizing order: The speed during test mode or running from the local panel is 1500 RPM without hunting or fluctuation. •With synchronizing order: The speed during running mode is fluctuating between 1490 to 1510 RPM with hunting which led to the generator doesn't synchronize with the other generators or with the national grid as a single unit. Others: - 1- The faulty genset working random after a lot of trails and when it sync with the others generators it working without any problems until they stopped normally and if we need to but it in the service again it doesn't sync again and it starting hunting 2- Generator address No.1 had the same problem one time or twice but still working, just we stopped and starting it again and it sync normally 3- the speed bais output already changing fast from 37% to 42% while the others generators changed between 38% to 39% and they sync normally which mean that the controller already sending a variable speed bais value The actions which had been taken: - 1- Check and test the continuity of the MPU sensor to the ECM and speed bais signal wiring. 2- BY ET module we calibrating the RACK position Sensor which installed in the diesel fuel pump without faults 3- Swapping between two generators No 2 & 3, the Woodward control panel and still the problem in the same Genset 4- testing the insulation resistance for all generator winding and check the Block rectifier they had been found healthy 5- we checking the varistor and by the megormter and it was 15 Mega ohm at 495 Vdc 7- checking the Bus\mains signal pt on the Woodward still the hunting problem as it is!! may be the problem in the main bus freq signal or input still during the sync at KW page on Woodward reference load value was 0% before running in Sync mode and it sometime be in 0% value and sometimes it give the actual reading how can i check the process signal and it can make the hunting problem or not Does anyone know how to solve this problem? Thanks

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2181
Good Answers: 255
#1

Re: Three Diesel Generators Synchronizing With National Grid Problem

02/15/2019 10:51 PM

If it has worked for a long time and now behaves as you describe, then "something has changed".

While there are many symptoms, it is probably a single and simple item. RESIST the temptation to fiddle and adjust as this will then create additional non-standard settings that will need to be recovered.

It is either a "breakdown" or induced failure.

For induced failure, has there been ANY work done on the system that corresponds to the beginning of these observations. Somehow an adjustment/change was made that created this new situation. For instance have the engines been serviced or the control panels worked on? It may be as simple as having #3 set as master (while #1 was serviced) but #1 when returned to service was hard wired as master, so the controller is getting conflicting inputs.

If it is "breakdown", then the supplier should be able to support you with the means to diagnose this set-up by providing a sequential series of tests.

I have put the suggestions with supplier contact second only so that you can eliminate any simple local issues. The system supplier is the expert and will provide timely professional answers rather than the delays and such you will encounter with an anonymous forum.

__________________
Just an Engineer from the land down under.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1368
Good Answers: 105
#2

Re: Three Diesel Generators Synchronizing With National Grid Problem

02/15/2019 11:30 PM

A sticky mechanical linkage for the governor / engine output will make the engine surge. This is likely at the fuel injector linkage, where the electronic actuator actually moves a mechanical piece of equipment to adjust the fuel flow, assuming typical mechanical injectors, per this photo?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1368
Good Answers: 105
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Three Diesel Generators Synchronizing With National Grid Problem

02/15/2019 11:52 PM

However, since the speed is stable in test mode, then perhaps the isochronous portion of the speed control is active, trying to hold speed, or the control is attempting to make the generator take on load before there is load to take on. Maybe your generator main breaker shows closed before it is, and confuses the control enough to make it speed up, then over speed takes it back down.

It is likely some moving part, some mechanical component, like a switch or similar component.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9913
Good Answers: 1141
#4

Re: Three Diesel Generators Synchronizing With National Grid Problem

02/16/2019 2:35 PM

Just off the top of my head, it sounds like the generator governor is set to isochronous rather than droop mode when you are trying to parallel.

Isochronous mode will attempt to maintain an exact speed whereas droop mode will cause the generator to slow down slightly as it acquires more load. When paralleling with an existing bus, for stability, the generator governor must be in droop mode.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-droop-control-for-a-generator

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 157
Good Answers: 6
#5

Re: Three Diesel Generators Synchronizing With National Grid Problem

02/22/2019 12:57 PM

Check/clean/replace your fuel filters. Dirty/clogged fuel filters can make an engine hunt.

__________________
You can always tell a Nuke because you can't tell him anything!
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 5 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Just an Engineer (1); Rixter (1); rwilliams (2); XNuke (1)

Previous in Forum: Max. Motor Size for MV MCC 4.16 400A Contactor   Next in Forum: Timed Light Switch

Advertisement