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Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/20/2019 12:14 PM

Methane => CH4 => ( molecular weight => 16 (roughly) )

Air => ( (average molecular weight) => 29 (roughly) )

Carbon dioxide => CO2 => ( molecular weight => 44 (roughly) )

Methane is roughly about half as heavy as air, and four times as damaging to this earth's atmosphere as is carbon dioxide, which is significantly heavier than air, but there are only a few calls to burn-off methane in order to mitigate (global warming)...

Why not?

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#1

Re: Why not burn off methane gas?

02/20/2019 12:47 PM

It is burned off in some cases....

..."When released into the atmosphere, methane acts as a greenhouse gas, trapping UV rays from the sun and heating the air, and is the second most prevalent greenhouse gas emitted in the U.S. behind carbon dioxide (CO2). Although methane has a shorter lifespan in the atmosphere than CO2(approximately 12 years compared to CO2’s potential of thousands of years), it is a much more potent greenhouse gas. On a 20-year timescale, it absorbs 86 times more heat than CO2, rapidly warming the planet and exacerbating climate disruption."...

Even though methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than Co2, it has a much shorter lifespan at ~12 years compared to carbon dioxide....so turtle and the hare

...as you can see the sources are widespread and varied but wetlands is far and away the largest producer of methane...

..."Fred Pearce has a fascinating story in New Scientist this week on methane, which he dubs "the next fossil fuel." At first glance, the vast frozen deposits of methane clathrates around the Arctic look like an attractive stopgap solution for reducing emissions. Burning methane for fuel produces only half as much carbon-dioxide as coal does, and the clathrates themselves—found in the Siberian permafrost and in various seabeds around the world—are fairly accessible, it turns out. In Alaska alone, there's potentially enough methane to heat 100 million homes for a decade, and commercial production could get underway by 2015, according to the Energy Department. (Not discussed in the piece is how we would transport the extracted gas, which, alas, is no easy feat.)"...

https://newrepublic.com/article/51015/methane-the-good-the-bad-the-really-hideous

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Why not burn off methane gas?

02/20/2019 1:08 PM

Yes, methane gas, naturally vented, does harm the atmoshere (yes, 86 times as damaging is much worse than 4 times...)

...but, that is if all that methane gas is not burned off...

If it were, it would be subject to some 20+ chemical reaction equations that would then result in more CH2, O2, H2, etc., and more H20...

And that is not so bad as it all staying as CH4...

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#3
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Re: Why not burn off methane gas?

02/20/2019 1:49 PM

Hey some good news...

..."Scientist John Worden of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, and colleagues focused on fires because they're also changing globally. The area burned each year decreased about 12 percent between the early 2000s and the more recent period of 2007 to 2014, according to a new study using observations by NASA's Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer satellite instrument. The logical assumption would be that methane emissions from fires have decreased by about the same percentage. Using satellite measurements of methane and carbon monoxide, Worden's team found the real decrease in methane emissions was almost twice as much as that assumption would suggest.

When the research team subtracted this large decrease from the sum of all emissions, the methane budget balanced correctly, with room for both fossil fuel and wetland increases. The research is published in the journal Nature Communications."...

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2668/nasa-led-study-solves-a-methane-puzzle/

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#4
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Re: Why not burn off methane gas?

02/20/2019 3:36 PM

You should also notice from SolarEagle's reply that capturing methane gas for burning from the wide variety of sources would be difficult.

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#5

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/20/2019 8:03 PM

When it comes to the wetlands, the devil is in the details. I just read a couple of more recent discoveries - it seems the increased emissions are actually from new carbon in thawed bogs, but the increase in peat formation in those bogs still makes them a net carbon sink.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3328

The older stores of carbon in the arctic are being released when well drained land thaws, but not as expected, from thermokarst bogs (wetlands produced by collapse of thawing permafrost).

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.soilbio.2017.12.010

Wet bogs also lock in the N stores, instead of spewing Nitrous oxide( with 300X greenhouse effect of CO2). Yes there's quite a store of Nitrogen in the arctic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5474798/

So it's the dryer land of the thawing lot that has most potential to release greenhouse gases.

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#6

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/20/2019 9:34 PM

We already burn off Methane in the Millions of Cubic Meters.

We also produce it from natural reservoirs and capture it from sources like rubbish facilities.

Not sure which other Methane you want to burn.

Did you mean to set a pilot-flame to the back site of cows?

Whats the weight having to do with anything?

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#10
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 6:09 AM

A sustained pilot system would not work for obvious reasons,it would fail when needed the most.

For such an application I would suggest an automatic ignition system,such as found in modern gas fueled heat systems.

There would be a need for a methane detector ahead of the igniter to prevent false triggering.

Of course,the shock to the animal when re striking the arc could affect milk production,so cost/benefits would have to be scrutinized.

The arc could also result in solids contamination of the methane collection apparatus.It could also result in a stampede in certain sensitive animals.

I am currently working on a piezo ignition system(powered by the swatting action of the tail) for such applications,and insulated shoes for the cows to reduce the voltage-to ground current.

It may be possible to extract the methane directly from the 4th stomach by via a stoma ,but veterinarians are opposed to this idea.

My research continues..I will keep you posted.

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#11
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 9:48 AM

That reminds me of a commercial with Jessica and Nick taking a romantic sleigh ride pulled by a horse. Nick lights a candle and asks Jessica to hold it. While he bends down to pick up something for the date, the horse farts and Jessica looks like an overcooked roast. As Nick sits up, oblivious to what just happened, he says "Do I smell barbecue?"

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#12
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 1:51 PM

...."A farmer in the town of Rasdorf, Germany got a stinky shock when the methane gas produced by his 90 dairy cows blew the roof off his farm shed. The fart attack was caused by built up flatulence in the shed that were eventually ignited by a spark of static electricity. While there’s damage to the building, just one of the cows was injured with only slight burns."...

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#13
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 3:23 PM

Many years ago I learned to never trust a fart.

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#14
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 3:33 PM

I believe that rule is because of moisture and particulate content.

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#19
In reply to #14

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/22/2019 3:40 AM

It really has to do with the sensitivity and strength of the sphincter at the exit end.

It has taken crap for many years,so it decided to get even by dishing it out sometimes,hence the stealthy mode of some flatulence.

Likewise the urinary sphincter;it has a POY attitude.

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#26
In reply to #12

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

04/02/2020 6:26 AM

The earliest homes that humans inhabited were likely naturally occurring features such as caves. Seo In Dubai

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#21
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/25/2019 4:22 PM

There have recently appeared a couple of reports of fires in milking barns, due to methane accummulation...

So, if there happened to be a concerned dairy farmer that would want to take preventative measures rather than pay greatier fire insurance premiums, then, when all the cows were typically brought in to the milking barn, and it had a typically high ceiling, then most of the resultant methane therein would tend to rise to the ceiling-high-point, at which point, a small, short, vertical, capped chimney could be located, which, in turn, be equipped with a remotely activatable pilot light, in order to burn-off the daily CH4 accummulation, as needed...

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#22
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/26/2019 12:03 AM

Yeah, I am sure the insurance will pay for this. I neat Methane collection and ignition system. Trigger will be at the insurance desk.

Venting of the Methane is the better and safer solution instead.

If you allow any buildup and already pre-install the ignition source the catastrophe is pre-programmed.

Just have to wait for the bang.

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#23
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/26/2019 12:33 PM

To clarify, those reports are accessible by searching on ( methane+fire+barn )

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#7

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/20/2019 9:44 PM

Pilot on a cow?

Elton John's "candle in the wind" comes to mind.

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#8

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/20/2019 9:59 PM

Interesting read about methane clathrates:

https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/methane-hydrates-and-contemporary-climate-change-24314790

"Catastrophic, widespread dissociation of methane gas hydrates will not be triggered by continued climate warming at contemporary rates (0.2ºC per decade; IPCC 2007) over timescales of a few hundred years. Most of Earth's gas hydrates occur at low saturations and in sediments at such great depths below the seafloor or onshore permafrost that they will barely be affected by warming over even 103 yr. Even when CH4 is liberated from gas hydrates, oxidative and physical processes may greatly reduce the amount that reaches the atmosphere as CH4. The CO2 produced by oxidation of CH4 released from dissociating gas hydrates will likely have a greater impact on the Earth system (e.g., on ocean chemistry and atmospheric CO2 concentrations; Archer et al. 2009) than will the CH4 that remains after passing through various sinks."

Only about 1% of methane clathrates are in arctic permafrost context. The others appear to be relatively stable where they are in the ocean so no rush to burn em.

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#9

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 4:05 AM

The practicality of capturing bovine flatulence in sufficient quantity to make a difference is beyond current technology.

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#15

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 3:35 PM

This discussion is a real gas!

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#16

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 3:49 PM

Here's an idea.

LynDoor™Industries Bossy Bag.

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#17
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 3:52 PM

Methane is lighter than air. How many cuft will it take to make her either light headed or light on her feet?

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#18
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/21/2019 4:55 PM

I hope LynDoor has something in the works for nitrous oxide capture too... we don't want to die laughing (or do we? )

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#20
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Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

02/22/2019 10:50 AM

stop eating steaks and may be consider chew "off-topics" just saying

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#24

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

03/09/2019 7:21 AM

Methane can be burnt for obtaining electricity, power garbage truck, and heat buildings. Capturing it before it harms the atmosphere also helps in cutting off the effects of climate change. And surely, methane doesn’t live as long as CO2. Through methane half as heavy as air, it has a shorter lifespan and all the methane gas don’t get burnt off easily. So your answer is here. But you can get benefit from benefit from Renewable Energy .

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#25

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

07/27/2019 11:13 PM

Burn it off?? Much better to use it in fuel cells to generate electric power.

No pollution.

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#27

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

04/02/2020 9:27 AM

A good few years ago now I worked on a project where a company called JDC were going to drill for methane hydrates offshore Japan. I left that particular company and didn't keep an eye on how successful it was. I believe after the tsunami destroyed one of their nuclear reactors they were seriously worried about their future energy sources and methane hydrates were seen as the way forward.

http://www.jdc.co.jp/en/business/drt/develop1.php

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#28

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

01/15/2022 3:31 PM

Has anyone calculated the methane produced by 8 billion humans?

All mammals,reptiles,even fish produce methane.

Has this been taken into account?

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#29

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

01/15/2022 3:39 PM

Turkmenistan president wants to close the Gates of Hell. If they succeed by diverting the methane into a capture system for revenue, I have no problem with that. If they instead only extinguish the flames then so many other problems can happen with this large gas leak.

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#30

Re: Why Not Burn Off Methane Gas?

01/16/2022 1:32 AM

There might be zillions and zillions of life forms that depend on emissions, of which we think is detrimental. I don't believe we understand what we're doing.

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