Humans in Space

In a lot of science fiction stories, space stations are spinning to provide artificial gravity, and it seems this would be a simple solution to overcome the effects of zero gravity once structures in space are of appreciable size. I don't know what technical problems would be involved in this.

a = ω² r, so a = g at about r = 10 meters, when ω = 1, a rotation about every 6 seconds or 10 RPM.

Larger size and slower rotation would probably be preferable. At faster rotation speeds, the Coriolis force might be annoying when you move around, but I suppose you would get used to it.

Space debris becomes more of a problem as the size increases. This is just one of the many things a Sci-Fi author can ignore but an aerospace engineer can't.

Thanks, good point. I wasn't thinking of that. We kind of fouled our own nest there, didn't we?

Why not?We have fouled our lower atmosphere,our oceans,and rivers. space is infinite,but I am sure we will leave a trail of garbage wherever we go. Imagine a space explorer,traveling at near light speed getting hit by a flying frozen pamper or tampon."Captain,we have an unidentified object dead ahead"Take evasive maneuvers,Scotty" "Too late Captain,it's gonna hit us" It's lodged in our main engine,but the fuse has gone out.I think we are safe" "Fuse?" "Yes captain,there is a fuse hanging out of the end,but it is not lit." "Beam it in to the lab for analysis." "Our medical team has analyzed it,and it looks like it has killed before.It has human DNA from thousands of years ago embedded in it." "Beam it into space with the largest possible dispersion.It may harbor diseases that we have no resistance to." We could put all of the humans on Earth into a 1 mile cube,and still have lots of wiggle room. Our garbage,on the other hand will occupy much more volume. We are the most unnatural animal on the planet,and the most destructive. One day there will be a layer of sediment that will be discovered by whatever species replaces us,and it will be labeled "The garbage people layer".

No, space is not infinite. Space is a very, very big numeric volume but it is not infinite. The unreachable and therefore unusable volume of space is virtually identical to all of space. Therefore, the only part of space we can use is far, far from an infinity of space.

Mankind has already polluted the Moon...

That's why you have a force field surrounding the space station...

https://futurism.com/new-force-field-technology-hopes-protect-astronauts-future-deep-space-missions

A strong magnetic field might protect astronauts from charged cosmic ray particles as does the earth's magnetic field, but it would not help much from uncharged space debris.

Well for debris and such I think an auto laser defense system would be needed, vaporize incoming projectiles...

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/08/us-targets-a-megawatt-laser-by-2023-and-then-deployment-in-drones-and-satellites-for-hypersonic-and-icbm-defense.html

Space is for robots....

With virtual reality, we may not need to physically visit other planets,we may just send robots to beam back the information.With advances to come in quantum entanglement,there would be no delay in information transmission,giving real time control over the explorer-bots. A couch potato could sit at home and visit anywhere in the galaxy,or universe for that matter. The only limitation is the transportation of vehicles at a fast enough velocity to get there. The first one to leave for a distant star will not make it, they will be passed by faster and faster machines,and they too will be passed by the next generation,and so on and so on until we find out how to warp space time. That's just the way I see it in my spacetime warped mind.

We are go for launch....in 3 2 1

Quantum entanglement, unfortunately, does not allow communication at greater than the speed of light. Measurements made on distantly separated entangled particles may correlate, but the results are random, uncontrollable, and thus not useful for a channel of communication.

Even robot explorers anywhere further than the moon require a certain amount of autonomy due to the latency time between sensing and control - our robots need to think for themselves and we are forced to explore vicariously.

There are at least 2 reasons why we might have to visit other planets in person:

1. Too many people on Earth

2. The people on Earth have made it uninhabitable.

There is no reason to send humans into space, at all.

Possible exception, repair of low orbit satellites.

Da Vinci Robotic Surgery proves that humans do not have to be in the same place as the machine.

Ego needs no reason.

I emphatically disagree. I do agree that people need not be hurtled into the void of space, now. I also agree when people must be hurtled into near and distant space is uncertain at best. But unless we accept human civilization will end here, we must eventually look outward.

Human civilization will end here. Our time has already run out.

Earth, in some form, will outlive humanity and we aren't smart enough to survive.

I emphatically and wholeheartedly disagree that "humanity" will end with us. For if humanity does fail and my acquiescence has no bearing on this failure, what is the point of struggling with our present shackles. I would much rather stride to succeed, yet ultimately fail; than to admit defeat prematurely.

No civilization in history has faced the obstacles we have visited upon ourselves with our desire to live in luxury. Our consumption of natural resources and fouling of the planet with our waste is only going to get worse as civilization "advances".

The trillions we squander on unnecessary luxuries, "defense" spending, cosmetics, overpriced drugs, politics, sports stars, even space exploration could be put to better use, now.

As you know, humanity occupies one one millionth of geologic time. To expect that we could be immortal is only a dream.

To foul one planet and then move to another and do it all over again seems pointless.

I'll do the best I can while I'm here.

Self-loathing is a disease....

That is an insult and a lie!

Keep your disgusting opinions to yourself!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misanthropy

My position on attempting to save the environment is well documented.

The obstacles in front of us increase every day, due to the backward, money before planet, imbeciles who now control the US government, Ghina and some other developing countries.

I don't care if some think this is a political statement, it is a statement of FACT!!!!

We may, someday far in the future move to another planet. One can only hope more sane minds prevail as to how to not destroy that one too.

Civilization is precarious, no doubt about that.

But in the history of evolution there is at least one story I think is relevant to the likelihood of human survival. On the eve of a previous mass extinction event, it happens that bivalves (mussels) had spread around the globe into every possible niche. Following the mass extinctions, they remained as a relict species while new life forms emerged around them and repopulated the earth. Since human population has followed a similar pattern and is pretty well everywhere on the planet, some humans are likely to survive somewhere. Not the "fittest" - more likely the "luckiest".

OTOH nuclear war or complete destruction of the atmosphere, which we appear to be capable of, could render the earth uninhabitable by anything less adaptable than a microbe. So the question is still relevant, can we control our fouling behavior, greed, violence, and ignorance? sufficiently to prevent that.

The idea that we should (or will successfully) move on and foul another planet after wrecking this one is pure hubris IMO.

I don't regret that our civilization "looks" outward, but am waiting for the penny to drop, what have we actually learned about the prospect of 'colonizing' some other place, by comparison to the world in which we live?

There is certainly nothing remotely within reach that is half as promising as the most challenging environment on earth. Nothing else in this solar system can sustain life. Even the quest for really distant 'earthlike' or 'habitable' worlds has not turned up a genuine prospect. Those terms are bandied about in a way that is simply deceiving. Mercury is not "earthlike" enough, neither is venus or mars, and while the Trappist system is interesting it is not a future home for human beings.

Foraging, fouling and moving on is an artifact of nomadic civilizations with sparse population and a large range. Other mammals have the same strange habit - elephants for example - of destroying the habitat they require to persist in a place. Which is fine as long as there is abundant habitat to move into. We credit ourselves with superior intelligence but seem unable to grasp the limits of that pattern of behavior, and the necessity to change it and consciously set aside what is no longer appropriate.

We also seem to think that "man, lettuce, tomato, beans" is enough to replace the complexity of life that actually sustains us here. The time frame for that 'picnic basket' survival is limited.

If genetic engineering was able to modify the human body to withstand space travel conditions, the same body would not be well adapted for earth conditions.. As all planets have unique mass and gravitational force, you would need a different kind of body at your destination as well. The body that is adaptable to all such conditions is going to look more like a bacterium or fungus.

Simulating the gravity of our own planet on board also will not solve the problem particular to the destination and its unique conditions. You would have to stay in the RV mother ship whenever you go camping space trekking. Of course you can suit up and venture out for a little while.

"increased immunity to radiation" ? I think this is unlikely. About as likely as 'teenage mutant ninja turtles'. More likely though, metamaterials will be developed for astronauts to wear and/or insulate the ship, which reduce or eliminate radiation risks. That possibility might not be so far in the future, either. Bet they will be talking about that for the moon missions.

Maybe they will travel to other planets with surgical robots and 3D bioprinters, to print you up a new set of organs better suited to the new place. Still not the kind of adventure I would look forward to, personally.

Well we could send the robotic explorers to distant planets, and when they find a habitable planet, they could raise new humans, have a space lab and nursery land on the surface stocked with frozen eggs and sperm, and then turn out test tube babies by the dozens...Would need some pretty sophisticated robots to raise the children though....Still communication could be setup and partially run from Earth...also a pretty good plotline for a movie....This would probably need to be done in stages with mining and mineral exploration for raw materials after finding a planet with suitable environment...then refining and manufacturing, food production, everything needed for the children to survive and flourish...

That would make for an interesting story with all sorts of possible plot lines.

Yeah , the twist would be that's how we came to be here in the first place...haha

Nice, I like it. Good, plausible science fiction.

Plotline of a movie... sure.

Feasible or likely? No. Eggs, sperm, frozen embryos are all very delicate and no reason to believe they would survive space travel, when adults can't, or are not long lived enough to make the journey.

..."Cryopreserved specimens, when properly stored, will remain viable for an indefinite amount of time. Pregnancies have been reported for cases in which the sperm has been stored for 20 years prior to thawing and insemination."..

https://www.fertilityiq.com/topics/egg-freezing/how-long-are-frozen-eggs-and-embryos-good-for

What do you base this statement on?

Any data on the survival rate in zero g, bombarded with gamma, etc etc? Does freezing help with any of that? Go ahead and ask the company you linked, whether they can warranty the cryopreserved for space travel.

I don't see how low gravity would have any effect during storage....and there are materials being engineered for radiation shielding in space...thawing would take place on the planet surface....

https://news.ncsu.edu/2015/07/rabiei-foam-rays-2015/

Plot twist: There has to be at least one live human on board at all times, to carry the microbiome necessary for the new humans to survive.

What will you be feeding the babies? Rocks? Those babies are outside on the hull, robots don't even need to take care of em.

If the planet doesn't have vegetation and animal life it wouldn't be suitable for human habitation....if it does, then organic food will be available....

...now eat your dinner

Even for a work of fiction, I find that a bit lame.

How many eons would it take to find a planet with vegetation and animal life but no human equivalent to foul and despoil the place, and/or defend it from the despoilers.

Every living organism, plant or animal on this planet uses its strengths to enhance its survival. This general characterization of humans being "bad" is really tiresome and lame. Quite frankly, I am offended. As you know, it is quite a crime to offend somebody.

Fair enough. I wouldn't want to despoil the forum with bad attitude. Not at all.

Humanity is not perfect, but I think we can use our strengths for better stewardship of this amazing planet we're on. Personally I'm going to keep on relishing the use of these opposable thumbs for as long as I have em.

Well it's likely we'll have to slowly kill off the dominate species....If this planet had no humans what would be the dominate species? Pigs? Buffalo? ...no, more likely a top predator....Bears...? ....or bearlike creature.....my guess

First you'd better find something you can milk. Babies to feed.....

Humans are perfectly equipped to provide milk for their offspring,just like any other mammal,and I have seen plenty that would have a surplus to spare. In the past,there were wet nurses that would provide milk for mothers that were inadequate in that respect. People make too big of a deal about women nursing in public,but it was not uncommon when I was a kid to see women nursing their infants on a bus. No one made a big deal out of it. It is kinda like in the 1800's piano legs had to be covered by skirts to prevent men from being turned on by the sexy curves. Now I have more fabric in my neckties that women do at the beach. Yet some are prudish about public breast feeding. Than's progress,I guess.

see #17

..."This would probably need to be done in stages with mining and mineral exploration for raw materials after finding a planet with suitable environment...then refining and manufacturing, food production, everything needed for the children to survive and flourish..."...

The robots would do the heavy lifting of establishing support for human colonies...

It is likely to be nanobots that can construct anything from the basic elements found on the planet. There is a severe cost penalty for every ounce of weight that leaves Earth orbit,so I would think that a few self replicating robots would be the method of choice. They could do everything from building the habitat to creating the environment required for human habitation,and making fuel for spacecraft.

I get it.... put everything in place before you start the infants.

Maybe they could bring materials for some test tube cattle? Just sayin... it's a failsafe, in case the planet Eden has no mammals. Robot ranch in a test tube.

Well no doubt some genetic manipulation will be necessary, possibly on both sides...A healthy library of genetic information and materials I think would be part of the required tools...The Mother ship may be in orbit for 100 years or more waiting for conditions suitable for colonization....Depends on how much work is needed...

Maybe not so long....

https://www.engadget.com/2019/04/16/nasa-tess-earth-sized-exoplanet/

Check out this link on sending DNA across the internet: It can be 3d printed at the receiving end. https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gibson_how_to_build_synthetic_dna_and_send_it_across_the_internet.

"The same physique at 80 as when you were in your 20's!"... It would be great but I think gene manipulation can give you any surprises you can imagine

Evolution continues, though:

• Over a period as brief as a century the average height of humans has increased by a measurable amount.
• Certain human characteristics have evolved to adapt to living at the reduced air pressures found at elevations around 15000ft.

Were the species to colonise space or another celestial body, this process would continue and, given the examples, it would be unreasonable to suggest otherwise.

The height increase is not due to evolution, it's due to improved diet in emerging countries...more protein is responsible...

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/01/world/tokyo-journal-the-japanese-it-seems-are-outgrowing-japan.html

Some of the height increase may be due to BGH in meats,like fast food burgers and such.

If that's not evolution then a pig just flew past the window.

I would characterize it more as "cultural adaptation" than evolution....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3327538/

I do think that a new generation on a different planet would evolve to be better adapted to its conditions, as long as those conditions were not too extremely different from earth.

1. The effect of reduced gravity on humans in space has been studied (a trillion(s) dollars spent) . Considering the .0076476% of all humans in space or will be in space, and the fact that at the same time our children can't read or write or know our republic, who really cares about humans in space, bumping into junk? Being more efficient humans and teaching our kids, here on earth is job #1. If OUR intelligence has gotten us to this point in time, maybe ARTIFICIAL intelligence and robotics can clean up after us. Why not? The industrial revolution has evolved on its own path like Pandoras box and human inventiveness will continue to adapt. The trillions and trillions of dollars spent IN space has not taught us how to live ON our spaceship earth. This cycle of warming rising oceans, and growing rainforests and grasslands, will bring another cycle of ice, but surviving humans will adapt.