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Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 1:53 PM

I must admit that while I do sharpen the odd chisel, knife or hatchet... I don't sharpen tools like drill bits, chainsaw blades.. for one, the investment in sharpening equipment always outweighs the cost of replacing a bit. Then there is the question of what equipment and techniques to use? There are oil stones and diamond hones, square, round, electro-digital and old school analog.. drill Dr? Drill PhD? Which way to turn?

When I did a lot of prewire work in wood frame homes I would have my long spiral bits sharpend from time to time and occasionally try my hand a taking dings out, but I never got the best results.

The main reason I'm asking is because one of my favorite bits has dulled and off the shelf replacement isn't possible as the stores get rid of useful tools annually in favor of the latest model.

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#1

Re: Tool sharpening

04/16/2019 3:08 PM

First of all, if you want decent cutting tools, forget the local "big box" stores and go to McMaster-Carr.

That said, as far as drill bits goes, "off-hand" shappening is a skill that requires both some instruction and constant practice to to achieve the correct geometry to allow the drill to cut true. Over the course of my career as a tool maker I got pretty good at doing a quick touch-up by hand, but to do a good resharpening, I would use a machine.

While there are many such machines on the market at prices ranging from very expensive to cheep( and useless) I have been using a Drill Dr™ with very good results for the occasional use I now require.

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#14
In reply to #1

Re: Tool sharpening

04/17/2019 8:09 AM

A quick touch up for sure. I have found that the real trick is to touch up bits often. Don't wait until they are very dull. It is easier to replicate the original cutting angles when they are not worn away. It is all in the technique.

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#18
In reply to #14

Re: Tool sharpening

04/17/2019 11:54 AM

Very good point. You should never allow ANY cutting tool to become so dull that you have to force it. This will just ruin the tool, the work, and possibly injure yourself.

A good machinist can feel when a tool is loosing its edge, and sharpen it at this point.

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#20
In reply to #1

Re: Tool sharpening

04/17/2019 9:14 PM

I've been hoping to hear good things about the drill Dr.

I've worked for companies that would go through more than a dozen bits a day and would ask about getting one and at least trying it out. If it did anything at all, the ROI would be pretty quick.

My bit set always has a few dullards that I'd like to educate.

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#2

Re: Tool sharpening

04/16/2019 3:10 PM

I have the electric model. It works just fine.

The other one may be better for you if you don't need to sharpen but one.

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#21
In reply to #2

Re: Tool sharpening

04/17/2019 9:18 PM

Thanks for the thumbs up on the HF sharpener.. I don't buy bits there, but a discount sharpener is better than what I use.

not sure about that little one.. cute though

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#32
In reply to #21

Re: Tool sharpening

04/17/2019 10:48 PM

I bought a set of these, on a lark because of the size selection.

Titanium Drill Bit Set 29 Pc. there.

They are soft and bendable.

Bad choice, but their stuff is mostly OK for casual home use.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Tool sharpening

04/17/2019 11:16 PM

I've found one good trick in replenishing bits and drivers is to look for the odd sets that have been discounted or discontinued.

You might end up with a handful of junk driver bits and a plastic case to toss, but you may end up with extra small bits and spades in spades.

I've found this type of weekend warrior /gift box marked down to less than $10 and better ones for a little more.

I have used one of these to sort my 1/2" and smaller bits for years. It also holds a great selection of driver bits and handy attachments.

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Tool sharpening

04/18/2019 3:18 PM

Titanium Nitride coated cutting tools like drill bits are not worth the extra cost unless the tool is to be used for high volume production. As with Lyn's example, the coating is often used like "lipstick on a pig" with poor quality tool steel in these bargen drill sets. TiN and other such coatings are only as good as the underlying steel. Any way, once the tool is reshappened, the coating is lost where it is needed most, on the cutting edges.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Tool sharpening

04/18/2019 3:31 PM

Another thought on buying cutting tools:

The most expensive tool that you can have in your shop is a cheep tap

That's from my own experience

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: Tool sharpening

04/19/2019 12:27 AM

I know what you mean.. those kegerators can really cut into the bottom line if other people start using it whenever they wish.

..play taps now. This joke was dead a minute ago.

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#41
In reply to #39

Re: Tool sharpening

04/19/2019 12:50 AM

Why is it that a cheap tap gets a bad rap, while a cold beer sounds like a good cheer?

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#44
In reply to #36

Re: Tool sharpening

04/20/2019 12:39 AM

"... Any way, once the tool is reshappened, the coating is lost where it is needed most, on the cutting edges. ..."

.

Not if sharpened correctly. The newly formed cutting edge has the coating on the face that contacts the work piece, that performs the cutting

Matetial is removed to form a lip with relief. The lip does not contact the workpiece in a cutting fashion.

The only part of a drill that sharpening will remove a coating on an area that is the primary contact would be at the point on the chisel edge. This isn't really a cutting surface.

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#45
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Re: Tool sharpening

04/20/2019 7:17 PM

Good point.

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#3

Re: Tool sharpening

04/16/2019 3:36 PM

You certainly can't sharpen them by hand with any consistent good results, at least I've never had any good results...but I have learned to buy the hardest bits I can find, and preserve the points with cooling/cutting fluids when drilling...That being said I believe the machine sharpening tools work well...I recommend the Drill Doctor 750x

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#22
In reply to #3

Re: Tool sharpening

04/17/2019 9:21 PM

that looks about my speed. and 3/32 to 3/4.. hmmm thanks

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#4

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 5:16 PM

What type of bit are you wanting to sharpen? There are plenty of How To videos on line that are very easy to follow. Here are a few to get you started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmFENSOUtTI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdshIBOox4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0SQkzScQk0

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#23
In reply to #4

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 9:27 PM

It's not exotic, it's not for steel, but it's a great little auger that will turn a bit.

Faster and less pressure than a regular auger during use. probably because it's missing it's rear end.

I've sharpened a few augers, but ehh. I probably have more than a dozen that are longer than a foot.

I loved the Greenlee "naileaters" but those disappeared from the shelf too. (at hodoe)

I've got some utubing to do.

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#5

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 5:31 PM

I was conflicted about sharpening bits considering the low cost of new ones. I decided to just throw away the dull ones and buy new ones from McMaster (as gringogreg advises). But then I discovered that I just couldn't throw away something that just needed a little sharpening to be as good as new. So I bought a Drill Dr. and have used it for years with good results. Have I gotten a good return on the purchase price? Don't know and don't care. I couldn't toss the dull ones.

Here is a video that shows a sharpening technique I have been meaning to try. If anyone tries it, please report your results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tie1hQ0qQQ

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#6
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Re: Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 6:44 PM

Thanks for this. I've sharpened drill bits many times with a bench grinder, but this guy's method is simpler. (BTW, his included angle was more like 135° than 118°.)

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#7
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Re: Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 7:08 PM

I have also done this. The secret is getting the same angle on both flutes.

Same with lathe tools. It's an art that some never learn.

My Harbor Freight sharpener is a great, cheap drill sharpener. I've had it for 10 years or so and used it a few times. It's fine for my needs. I have a bench grinder and a belt sander too. This takes all the guesswork out of sharpening twist drills.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 11:59 PM

Just consider the occasional trip to the store to replace your drill bits, and the peace of mind knowing that you will have/keep them in good shape. Paid off handsomely....even before account for the price of the new drill bits (and the side shopping that will come along...!)

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#24
In reply to #5

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 9:30 PM

Thanks, I'll look at that..

These tips are really what I'm after.

I love to know what somebody has tried and what they would consider trying.

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#8

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 7:28 PM

And if you want to take it a step further you can build your own EDM machine...

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#17
In reply to #8

Re: Tool Sharpening. Piezo Watchmaker's Lathe

04/17/2019 11:03 AM

Piezo(microscale) Watchmaker's Low Speed Lathe Concept Inception

Has anyone tried creating a surface EDM coarse bit shaper ?
I know that the final edge will need better resolution but
it strikes me that you could achieve relief, edge microserration,
edge tip lengthening, center customization, and other interesting
exotic techniques with a surface EDM setup. You could easily
deal with Forstner bits, end mills, and other specialty bits.

Your final sharp edge honer could be a separate micro diamond grinder(air
dental?) since you would be past the stage of bulk material removal
and could be piezo actuated CNC. Thermal issues would be minimized
since the bulk heat sink of the body of the bit to diamond grind
surface area ratio would be far greater than the usual thermal mass
to grinding surface area ratio and the force exerted with piezo would
be micro. Do the bit manufacturers do any of this already ? Why
hasn't it famously hit the home market or at least the DIY Utubes ?
The manufactured/original positive die could be used to do surface to
surface EDM so that you never use your purchased original die to erode
any bits directly. A set of bits of the genre you wish to manufacture
could be used to create a negative die. This would provide great
flexibility to the home user. A single precision chuck/press could be
clock motor driven during edm of the negative die, one bit at a time
through a small angle/depth to create a die matching the type of bit.

The same low strength, slow moving, high precision chuck/press could be
used for unattended, extended timeframe sharpening as well as negative
shape die production. A live center matching precision device for the
press/chuck could allow slow EDM CNC direct creation of custom one-off
bits. The chuck/press with possibly some added attachments might be
used to implement the diamond grinder final finishing actuation. The
whole setup would be like a scaled down watchmakers lathe tool(without
the pulley speed cone) capable of producing not only bits but tiny metal
parts and fasteners. I want one.

A casual piezo EDM web search turned up enhancement of EDM devices by
piezo shaking. This is not what I am talking about although it could
be a feature/attachment of my piezo watchmaker's lathe. And, of course, touch up sharpening of exotic shape random bits would be easy on such a lathe so GA to SE.
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#25
In reply to #8

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 9:36 PM

I watched that recently.. It made me think about the time I tried to drill a hole into the blade of a 6" taping knife that I broke the handle off of.

I used a variety of bits and went from hand drills to the big press with laughable results.. Crazy exercises like this is one reason I need a sharpener..

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#61
In reply to #8

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/21/2019 11:05 AM

It's sickening to see some Americans accept Chinese IP theft as a fait accompli and blithely go on to even promote Chinese theft as a done deal that they can do nothing about, so let's all just not talk about it anymore, OK?

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#63
In reply to #61

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/21/2019 9:38 PM

".... It's sickening to see some Americans accept Chinese IP theft as a fait accompli and blithely go on to even promote Chinese theft ...."

When you lay down an accusation like that, in my circles it is not okay to follow with something like;

"... so let's all just not talk about it anymore, OK? ...."

.

No. Not, okay. What makes you think this is IP theft. The patents for EDM are mostly from the 1970s. Some are from as late as the 1990s. Do you know of any patents that apply to the Chinese sources parts that are less than 20 years old?

There is definitely a problem with Chinese theft of IP, but AFAICT the video in the comment to which you replied does not indicative of that. A rant without baais merely works to distract, confuse, and potentially delegitimize in some eyea the genuine issue.

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#65
In reply to #63

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/22/2019 9:12 AM

Whatever.

Keep swallowing the crap they're feeding you.

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#66
In reply to #65

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/23/2019 12:49 AM

What asinine behavior. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and providing opportunity for you to back up your accusations, and you respond as if I insulted your mother.

.

If your accusation is legitimate, that the video supports Chinese IP theft, it will be fairly straight forward to make your case. I'm just asking you to articulate how you arrived at your conclusion that this represents promotion of Chinese IP theft.

.

Now, the first go around you became confused when I asked you to behave in an adult fashion by explaining your conclusion that this represents promotion of Chinese IP theft, so please pay careful attention: merely because I call for a little substantiation of your accusations for this particular case, does not suggest that I am denying Chinese IP theft is not a rampant problem.

Think of it more like based on your statements, it is difficult to believe that you have a decent grasp of what IP theft actually entails. That is a problem because tilting and windmills, blathering incoherent accusations of IP theft can easily get associated with legitimate complaints about the real issue yielding a delegitimizing effect.

Here is your chance to prove me wrong and vindicate your accusations....

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#9

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/16/2019 10:52 PM

I do them by hand and I use to machine nuts with any flat together and use that angle for guide, you need to after initial grinding rotate the drill to have relief under the cutting edge. If I have a really good wheel with sharp edges I cut a very small relief same as some of the better drills so have no wander on start of hole.Wish I had a photo. I was raised on the farm with a very mechanical father and he showed me a few drill sharpening tips. Success was when you had a good chip from both flutes. We used lard for cutting oil, it was excellent.

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#26
In reply to #9

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 9:52 PM

I know what you mean about having a good chip from both flutes. I use a drop of whatever oil i can, but lard is not the cutting fluid I'm used to.. I'm surprised it works? It sure doesn't stop the pig from squealing.

OT- About 25 years ago a friend of mine was visiting me with his pet pig. "Bacon" I had him keep the pig in a dog run overnight and the pig passed and my friend was pissed and very sad wondering what deadly dog run condition led to his demise.. I could only shrug and say the dog run is fine, and the pig must have been sick?

Said friend left town with said pig and (I didn't know someone did pig autopsies) reported back to me that Bacon had actually ate a bag of garbonzo bean fireworks (yes) that he had in the back of his van that led to his untimely death.

(the autopsy consisted of finding the eaten fireworks)

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#35
In reply to #26

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/18/2019 9:00 AM

So I guess this is a memorial event...

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#11

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 3:39 AM

Depends what you are drilling or cutting.
It's easy enough to sharpen wood bits, some of 'em you can even do with a decent file.
Easy enough to sharpen twist drills for mild steel with a small grind wheel and a bit of patience/practice.
The the trade off is time, convenience or availability.
I've cut down and ground drills to use as end mills on wood or aluminium rather than wait for delivery (I couldn't buy one locally).
If you use a lathe you'll need to sharpen tools, and you'll need an eye glass.
I don't think cost of sharpening equipment is an issue. A small grind wheel that can fit in an electric drill or drill press and a double sided oil stone cost very little.
I made a strop from a piece of MDF with a leather off-cut stuck on it, bought a little block of metal cutting compound off E-bay for £2.
If you have a belt sander, that's as good as a grind wheel, or better in some cases as you can get a flat face.
Pic shows a cheap flat wood bit shaped for drilling curved conical holes into horn for nocks on English longbows. Just done by eye, works fine.

Patience and practice...
Del

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#27
In reply to #11

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 10:00 PM

I drill everything from time to time. My favorite drill bit is a 24" x 1 1/2" SDS MAX and it's cousins. I had 36" x 7/8" but it was borrowed and lost ..

I love a good jig. I just made one to poke holes in foam.. super exciting.

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#12

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 5:24 AM

However you do it, keep cool. If you are changing the color of the metal with the heat you are generating you are changing the hardness.

Keep water nearby and use it to cool frequently.

Use bare hands....you shouldn't have glove on close to rotating equipment anyway, and if it is too hot to handle you should cool it down.

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#28
In reply to #12

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 10:02 PM

My daddy DID teach me about that, and I've passed it onto my son too.

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#13

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 6:49 AM

I don't try to sharpen any drill under 1/8" and buy that size in 10 packs to use as pilot holes. They are cheap and good as they are a standard size for pop rivets and so readily available.

Agree with Dell about spade and auger type drills. Patience is the key. Good job for a "wet weather day" in the shed.

Now on chainsaws, wouldn't dream of buying new blade until out of adjustment on the saw bar. Re-sharpen (In vice in shed before going out) every tank of fuel when cutting cured dead timber for firewood and also for green timber, but with a lighter touch. Usually 15 to 20 sharpens before run out of adjustment. Field sharpen almost as good as in vice, so adequate. Files and guides are less that $5 each and will sharpen a chain at least 25 times with proper care of the file.

When get to five blades needing shortening, get them shortened by the local saw doctor as a set at $5 each compared to $35 for single new blade and that is when I dress the bar for wear also. When run out of adjustment after that shorten there is usually nothing substantial left of teeth to bother about another shortening.

Always have one new blade and drive sprocket available in kit if necessary.

When getting serious, I take a spare bar with me as well. Only needed that twice in life. Log moved and jammed the bar. Simply dismount the bar and chain to leave in the pinch, fit alternate bar and chain and cut wedge to recover.

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#29
In reply to #13

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 10:13 PM

Honestly, with chain saws, I'm generally using someone else's saw to help fell a few trees or whatnot. I like to know the options should I need to know. Now i know.

I have a cheap electric chainsaw that's fine for me, but I dream of

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#34
In reply to #29

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/18/2019 5:27 AM

That looks a lot like the one that I have when it was new, except the bar is "Oregon".

You will (with care) get through the five chains to needing length adjustment on one drive sprocket.

My Husky was a birthday present from the father in law.

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#38
In reply to #34

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/18/2019 6:43 PM

Don't forget to turn the bar over to keep wear on the top and bottom of the bar equal.

I've got a Poulan and an Echo, 14". Both are fine for my casual, yearly use.

There's a shop here in town that sharpens chains for $6.00. I don't even bother to do my own.

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/19/2019 12:31 AM

Just last week I was with a guy with a many chainsaws as fingers.. 8

He did flip the bar over.. and then tried to run with the chain on backwards..

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#43
In reply to #13

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/19/2019 11:22 AM

I watched a pro cutting trees nearby,and he used a round file. He was so good,he did not need to turn the bar around,he could do it left and right handed.No vise.He simply held it across his knee. He said unless you hit metal,2 to 3 strokes was all that was needed to keep the edge razor sharp.I thought he was kidding about"Razor Sharp" but he was not.He let me touch one of the teeth,and it was indeed razor sharp. He also said he flipped the bar over every day to balance the bar wear. He said he did not replace a chain unless it was totally worn out. The chain he was using had teeth that were less than half the normal size,and it still cut good.He said he would check his depth of the drag link to make sure it was the right depth of cut.He could tell by the way it cut if the drag link was right.Too big of a chip it was too deep.Too little of a chip,it was too tall. But then again,he was a pro.I need a vise and a guide,but get good results. I have found that the electric sharpeners take off too much metal.

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#47
In reply to #43

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/23/2019 7:50 AM

While I flip the bar on each chain swap, the uneven wear on the bar is only the result of having one "side" of the chain cutting better than the other and thus rubbing harder on that edge.

The usual wear that I have on bar is that there is a wire edge develops off both sides that just needs a gentle touch with a flat file.

Have always sharpened by hand, in a vice if at all possible. I can file LH or RH with even pressure so I'm lucky that way. If you need more than 2 strokes to sharpen the chain, then you've waited too long (blunt chains stretch and use up the available adjustment and use more fuel for same amount of cut) OR your file needs to be replaced or cleaned of sap and gunk.

I've only used round file. The motorised devices are set to sharpen the worst case on the worst tooth and thus take more than necessary off every other tooth on the chain.

Chainsaw work can be VERY therapeutic if you take the time. Good saw, good axe, good wedges, good cant hook, real fun! Gee I miss that at the moment.

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#15

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 9:06 AM

There are other things to consider besides just sharpening the thing(s) you want. For drill bits, sometimes you might want one at a custom length. You can't get that at the store. Also, a cheap sharpener (like in reply #2) might be good for light touch-ups. But, is too slow for major re-shaping on broken/shortened bits/tools. A diamond wheel/hone retains its shape a lot longer, and you won't have a problem with compensating for its wear. it's hard to set up the right grinding angle when the wheel/hone itself is out of shape from wear (especially unevenly from different sizes of bits). A belt sander doesn't really need to maintain its shape, But still, the grit can get dull. A diamond wheel/hone cuts faster/cooler than softer materials, and you don't have to worry about how hard the bit/tool is. If you get in the habit of keeping ALL of your tools sharpened, you'll find that practice makes easier/quicker. And, you you won't be so hesitant to do it again the next time, just to get a sharp(er) tool (whether you need it or not). And, the more you do it, the more you'll want a good sharpener. I find it worthwhile to have multiple sharpeners. At least a cheap one for out-in-the-field touch-ups, and a good one in the shop for "mass production" sharpening, so you can do many bits/blades/teeth in one session. That way, you won't get bothered by set-up time for different types of sharpening, or procrastination because of the hassle. Then, you can make a lot of progress in a short time and be satisfied with the result. Then, you might even enjoy starting a new project with good working tools.

I believe Drill Dr has a diamond wheel(s) so it won't change its shape very soon to give bad angles/results or get dull and hard to cut. Cheap sharpeners might be good for the occasional soft material. But, once you try a harder material on it just because you don't have a diamond wheel/hone, it will dull the cutting edges for the NEXT time you try a softer material on it. Then, you'll wish you had a good sharpener that you don't have to worry about.

But then again, it depends what you want to get out of it. The right tool for the right job always works best. The best advice is to carefully consider your task requirements. Then, ask some experienced experts. And that part you've already done. Good luck.

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#30
In reply to #15

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 10:17 PM

I've started to use my diamond "tile" wheels for cutting steel etc.

I'll bet I can sharpen a drill on it nicely.. the wet saw? even better

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#16

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 9:57 AM

As an apprentice machinist many years ago the first thing I was taught was sharpening a drill bit by hand. It took some time and practice to get proficient at it. I still sharpen My bits by hand but like you the small diameter bits are hard to sharpen simply because the old eye sight isn't what it used to be. The small bits are cheap enough so that anything under 1/4 inch isn't worth resharpening. Quite a few people in the forum suggest a drill doctor, I don't know what the capacity is for this machine but I am assuming its 1/2 inch so if You have larger bits, which can get very expensive, I would suggest You learn how to sharpen by hand. A small belt sander is cheap. Might even find one at a garage sale.

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#19

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 7:02 PM

I can sympathize with your dilemma as to sharpening drill bits and chainsaw chains but depending on your needs an interests the actual selection and use of better quality sharpening machines can be a pleasure in itself.

For chainsaw chains an electric chainsaw sharpener can be had down under for around the $50 mark. It is mains driven but once the angle and depth are set the chain can be sharpened in a matter of minutes.

I usually have several chains sharpened so when one becomes blunt in the field it is just a matter of a quick chain change and believe me on old seasoned iron bark they do become blunt fairly quickly especially if the termites or ants have carried sand grains up into hidden crevices. Besides sitting at the work bench at night doing some chain sharpening keeps one away from the idiot box.

For drill bits and milling cutters I splashed out some years ago and bought a D bit grinder, which came with diamond wheel and an assortment of grinding wheels, cost over a grand but it came with all manner of collets and fittings to sharpen all manner of cutters. Considering I often make special lathe bits or milling cutters for one off jobs on the mills or lathe it is great.

I a former life in a mine the tramp magnet used to collect broken cutting teeth from the grader blades when they hit the grizzley and it was just a matter of collecting the broken bits and debrazing the tungsten carbide tips about 30mm square and you have a source of very hard cutting material for special jobs. I have a bench grinder set up with a HSS grinding wheel and a green wheel especially for touching up tungsten carbide.

As others have said hand grinding drills is an art needing practice but for a quick touch up it works well. The d bit grinder can be used to grind drills to various included angles for differing metal thickness and types to get best cutting.

I often sharpen masonry drill bits and I have found that if you sharpen the carbide insert to a similar profile as a normal drill bit it is possible to drill holes in hardened metal or stainless steels which otherwise turn drills into polishers. These work especially well when you have to remove the broken remains of roll pins from shafts where they have been sheared off and haven't been able to be removed by hammer, punch and gorilla methods.

Hope I have been of help to you.

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#31
In reply to #19

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/17/2019 10:28 PM

you said.. the actual selection and use of better quality sharpening machines can be a pleasure in itself.

I agree... I have a couple bench grinders with wheels, wire and a big buffer, but the grinding wheels are rather coarse..

I'm going to try that trick with the masonry bit's I have many I don't use because i use SDS regular or MAX for masonry whenever possible.

I've had the carbide tips fall out, but not enough to make super sandpaper.

Thanks for all the great tips.

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#42

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/19/2019 10:47 AM

I wasn't aware that the handy home bit sharpeners existed. I think drill bits are the first thing that starts to accumulate in the home toolkit, we never threw any away just bought more (of course!) and I have a bunch of my Dad's as well.

Chains and bucksaw blades are two things I never had the ambition to sharpen. I have four chains that are interchangeable between the two saws, and would drop them off to be sharpened for $5 so there was always a sharp one on hand. Bucksaw which I still use from time to time is the worst - $10 for a new one or $5 for a replacement blade - and I could never get the tension on the replace blade as good as the one from the factory. Either way, I would put a low dollar value on time spent trying to sharpen it by hand.

We used to use the bench grinder for the wood lathe tools and I used to sharpen my axe on it as well but nowadays I just do it by hand.

Anyway Toolkit Envy here. to all these awesome sharpening setups.

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#46

Re: Tool Sharpening

04/21/2019 2:25 PM

This thread has been great... I had to drill a 10mm hole in brickwork and my masonry bit tip looked like a blob of tungsten carbide.
I remembered some of the posts on here and tried sharpening it on one of those cheapo diamond sharpening stones I got in a set.
Gave one edge a few wipes on the coarse one.... blimey it put a nice edge on it.
Flipped it and did the edge
Certainly drilled a damn sight better too
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#48

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/17/2019 9:52 AM

For those of you who saw, see this.

Pretty nice!

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#49

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/18/2019 4:00 AM

Is this what you are looking for?https://www.irwin.com/tools/drill-bits/ship-auger-bits

To sharpen an auger bit,you need the right file and technique.

Here is a link to both:https://www.fine-tools.com/G-augerbitfile.html

You may be able to sharpen the old ones you have.

Good luck.

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/18/2019 8:35 AM

Thanks.

I found a way to sharpen them.

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#51

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/18/2019 10:30 AM

Slightly off topic but I started wood turning about a year ago and was given the advice that if you think you might need to sharpen your chisel you should have sharpened it before then. But wood turning tools see a huge length of cutting in a very short period of time. The point being, as others have said, don't let the cutting edge of any tool get too blunt before sharpening.

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#52

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/18/2019 6:01 PM

I think this can be one of the great technical mysteries. The great mystery of efficiency. Why is it that a small amount of usable energy/bearing-surface-area/wearable-surface-area/sharp-edges/working-material always requires the "support" of a high-loss system? A tiny bit of wear can negate the value of the rest of the "system". In theory, recycling/sharpening/re-surfacing should be able to recover 90% of the cost. Why does this not work out that way? There ought to be a valid answer. So far, nuclear power has the best return on material used.

Any comments?

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/18/2019 11:12 PM

No Mystery... All I/O's Womb to Tomb... Sometimes Stated: Scaling has its Limits

90% ! What "theory" would that be ?
Look at geometry. A ramp to construct the Great
Pyramid at Giza would require more fill volume
than the Great Pyramid itself, not just 10% of it.
Scaling ALWAYS has bounds.

Nuclear power is great if you only look at the
very edge. That is, the mass lost to energy when
you split a large atom or the mass lost to energy
when you fuse two small atoms is just like looking
at only the material in the sharp edge of the blade.
Myopic ! To get real, you have to consider all the
infrastructure not only to produce the energy but
also all the effort/material/energy required
multiplied by the time involved in dealing with the
waste. Womb to tomb, nuclear is one of the most
inefficient. I contend, prohibitively inefficient.
And tomb, here, is not when the last megawatt is
produced but when the last radioactive isotope
decays into something benign which can be integrated
safely into the rest of the ecosystem.

Indeed, any "described process" which does not
include ALL of the sources and sinks of material
and energy is fraudulent. The best anyone has ever
done is to become part of a rich ecosystem where the
other participant processes absorb all of the "waste"
from the focus process. Just like socialism this
works great until (you run out of other people's
money) the user(s) overwhelm those other processes
by scaling their process until the others can not
possibly produce their inputs and absorb their
outputs at the rates required. The ONLY palatable solution
to this dilemma is to restrict scaling below the
capacity of the overall ecosystem resource flows.

Translation: population cap. The ONLY alternative
choices inevitably lead to catastrophic collapse
(extinction.) Argue with this ye lemmings and
lead your masses off the cliff in a great final
triumph of reincarnate compulsory negative feedback.

Many say "anything is possible." I say "indefinite scaling is not possible."

Moore's Law for processors, based on CMOS device scaling, held for half a century. It is now broken.

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#54
In reply to #53

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/19/2019 6:18 AM

Those who are a bit myopic themselves would be better off refraining from disparaging the widespread use of lenses to improve vision.

"... And tomb, here, is not when the last megawatt is

produced but when the last radioactive isotope
decays into something benign which can be integrated
safely into the rest of the ecosystem...."

Yes, it would more costly given that odd metric. But then, most major sources we derive power from use harmful materials (consider solar uses many toxic elements like cadmium, tellurium, and arsenic) , many of which will probably remain that way pretty much until the universe is over. It is absurd to demand that all materials utilized become totally benign is the stuff wasn't benign when we started messing with it.

u235 has a half life around 700,000 year and U238 has a half life around 4.5 billion years. We didn't conjure these elements, and there radioactivity is not something we can be blamed for. The waste from nuclear fission process, the actinides and fission products and decay daughters is not material that wasn't already radioactive. It was radioactive and would remain so on the order of billions of years. The half lives of the fission products and actinides and chain of decay daughters yields a net shortening of the half lives.

If your argument is for a requirement that all materials involved in some product or process must be rendered benign, there is no reason to single out radioisotopes. There are plenty of toxic substances that have no half life, so never decay. How would one remediate cadmium, arsenic and tellurium? And how would you account for their containment till the end of time?

"... Translation: population cap. The ONLY alternative

choices inevitably lead to catastrophic collapse

(extinction.) ...."

.

Try to hold on to the idea that you might not have perfect insight. If possible keep in mind that your idea might not be the ultimate best. Your ideas can probably be improved upon and some are probably fundamentally wrong. When you find yourself typing something in all caps to emphasize an absolute lack of other possibilities would be a good time to practice.

'Population cap' is not the only viable alternative. Imagine other possibilities:

Consider human traveling through the solar system and then beyond to homestead new habitats for the continued growth.

Another possibility would be shifting an increasing portion of the population it's been an increasing portion of each day and the stasis living their consciousness in a virtual world requiring for less resources. When is possible that the population continues to grow and the strain on resources remain steady. Where the hell to technology for this yet that I know of, but it's not beyond the pale.

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#56
In reply to #54

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/19/2019 10:50 PM

I truly need to do some review before posting. Sorry for the unedited word salad.

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#57
In reply to #54

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/19/2019 11:09 PM

There is Ineffective and There is Ridiculously Ineffective

The energy required for human space travel makes off-earth migration prohibitive on far less than a billion scale. The distance to alternative planets means multiple generations of humans will have to survive the greater-than-a-human-lifetime journey and we are no where close to that technology. A space travel solution is more foolish than Tom Hanks leaving his little island on a raft in the middle of the ocean in "Castaway." Abandoning his perfectly good island or our perfectly good spaceship Earth is more certain suicide than jumping out of a perfectly good airplane without a parachute or any other means of slowing your decent.

Conservation ("virtual world") is a linear answer to a geometric problem. That is,you are proposing to solve a non-linear dilemma with a strictly linear solution. Big "O" analysis of this similar to software performance analysis indicates that these solutions are worse than hopeless. As an exercise write a bubble sort (N2) and a shellsort (nLogN) with some visual rendering of the processes. Watch them run. Then attempt to run them on more than eight billion sort items. Watch... watch... watch.........

As long as we live on a finite earth and people populate geometrically(1798 study, “An Essay on the Principle of Population,” Malthus ), all linear solutions are not viable. Using "less" resources is pointless and stressful. It is not just suicide but a slightly slower version of it. So, why do people populate geometrically ? Ask yourself if lowering infant mortality, curing cancer, indeed, all of curative medicine, energy technology, farm technology, sex,... are popular concepts. Then ask yourself if personal suicide, family size limitations, personal income tax exemption elimination, ... are popular. It is quite easy to see that we have highly effective death control in place and that birth control, abortion, infanticide, mercy killing, ... are all maligned in entertainment, literature, and most pointedly in religion and law. The net effect of these social norms is that we consistently strive for death control and we ostracize, incarcerate, and condemn anyone assisting or even lobbying for a dignified intentional exit of this mortal coil or even for truly effective birth control incentives.<solution

It is easy to accurately predict that if we do not choose to provide intentional means to negatively impact population expansion, that ultimately the carrying capacity of the world ecosystem will be exceeded. That means that the classical curses of human kind, namely famine, pestilence, war, ... will inevitably gain the upper hand. This means that, far from being kind and humane, we will end up exploding misery and suffering and risking global human extinction. The politically popular globalist mentality virtually guarantees complete global collapse once the global carrying capacity is exceeded. National isolationism decreases the likelihood of absolute global human extinction. Happily there has recently been some pushback on, for example, the EU(a globalist's panacea) by the UK with the Brexit vote.

The myth of replacement population rates is widely believed. People discount the impact of mass migrations(eg. illegal and legal immigration into the US) and assert incorrectly that the US has achieved replacement population rate in spite of the numbers showing our population continuing to rise. While it is true that educating females has a negative population rate growth bias, the world population of under-educated females continues to climb. With lax national immigration policies, the result is a continued faster than linear global population increase. Linear is not even good enough. The world population growth rate needs to be precisely zero. These facts have been well known in some intellectual circles since well before the publication of The Population Bomb. The elites suppress them because they have the short term perception that the more people who are less informed than they are, the more powerful the elite become. They are not mental giants since human extinction is the ultimate playing field leveler. I suppose that the elites may be thinking that with a global government they can exterminate as many as they need to balance the world ecosystem carrying capacity and still have plenty of slaves to maintain their lifestyles. Now isn't that a pleasant thought !

I'll bet you think my post is a downer so far. Hah ! The real downer is that your elite are the edge of the best tool you have to survive on spaceship Earth. You must keep them sharp or you are doomed to extinction. Just how much material (politicians) must you regularly shave off(kick out of office) to get a tool sharp enough to keep you and your descendants alive ? Unfortunately, it is more than 10%.

And the more of them there are, the harder it will be to shave enough of them off.

And the more of them there are, the harder it will be to shave any of them off.

<Scaling has its limits because the cross terms become significant.

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#58
In reply to #57

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/20/2019 10:02 AM

I quite agree with you that there are limited resources here on Earth. Also, eventually the Sun will grow in size until it swallows up the Earth and incinerates it.

I was merely pointing out that to be wrong, your insistence that the possibilities are limited to only either intentional coercive population cap or extinction resulting from picking some other solution to the problem; humans need not continue forever without some cap, instead humans need only to continue without a population cap until our species is wiped out by some occurrence unrelated to overpopulation. Alternately, beginning the process of moving beyond this planet would also dismantle your logic as continual growth in resources could offset increases in population.

Perhaps you can get over your concern that we will never leave this planet as a species, if you consider the possibilities in earnest anew.

The problems you describe with space travel are related to the expense of sending large ships into space and the time it takes to travel. Consider for a moment how both those concerns can be aleviated with technological advances, some of which are still a decade or three off, but not inconceivable.

Mass populations of human adults needn't be sent to distant star systems. With advances in artificial wombs, robotics, AI, and genetic modification, seeding ships could be sent with embryos, spores and seeds frozen for the trip and ready to be modified as needed and brought to maturity in final approach to the colony even if the trip took a couple hundred years.

Even if we did never colonize other worlds, limiting the possibilities to only extinction or intentional regulatory control of human reproduction for zero growth, ignores many other possibilities.

The assumption that all other possibilities lead to total extinction of the race is really way over the top. Many other species exhibit population booms and busts without this reaching an existential threat to the species as a whole even though those other species probably don't intentionally dictate a limit on reproduction. It is of course exciting to think of mankind as so different from the other species and so special that if we were to go through a boom and bust cycle again that it would be so extraordinary that the entire species end. However, it is far more likely that human animals will experience a similar boom bust cycle as other non human animal populations should they ignore your call to put human reproduction as a whole under the control of some bureaucracy.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/20/2019 1:37 PM

I think we should deal with here&now problems with here&now solutions. And, "The problems you describe with space travel are related to the expense of sending large ships into space and the time it takes to travel. Consider for a moment how both those concerns can be alleviated with technological advances, some of which are still a decade or three off, but not inconceivable." relies on "counting your chickens before they're hatched". To me, that sounds more faith-based than fact-based. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just looking for something more relevant.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/21/2019 9:32 AM

My comment wasn't a promotion of that possibility it was merely a pointing-out of the neglect of several alternatives in the declaration that the only two possibilities are either extinction or coercive population cap.

I'm not voting for any particular path in those comments, just pointing out that the possibilities are not as limited as had been claimed.

To use your analogy, I am not counting chickens before then hatch, I just point out that given the rooster in the pen and the hen sitting on eggs, there is a possibility that chicks may be hatched. Indeed the rooster might be infertile or the fox or snake might eat the eggs, but there is a possibility there will be chicks hatched.

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#64
In reply to #60

Re: Tool Sharpening ... Your Secret Transporter Room

12/22/2019 12:38 AM

Palatable ≠ Coercive

I said "The ONLY palatable solution..." and I was referring to a palatable solution for all of us not merely some elite. It can(if engaged promptly) and should be a non-compulsory path. Indeed, ALL other paths devolve into coercion by choosing one global government or another to, on an "emergency basis", "save" us(humans on planet Earth) from our lemming death spiral. Incentives are different than criminal penalties. Elimination of maladaptive counter-incentives are even less coercive than explicit incentives to comply. Historically, governments have been known to institute extermination programs during "strictly" emergency circumstances. That probably could be considered coercive.

As far as calling mass migration a "possibility", I suspect that you are conflating the "possibility of some space travel" with the "possibility of effectively relieving earthly overpopulation." If you can demonstrate a real-life transporter room which can cheaply punch human-safe worm holes through vast distances in space then I might be convinced. I am all for terraforming alternative sites for new human colonies but it does almost zero toward solving the persistently remaining population problem here on Earth unless you have been keeping that transporter room a secret.

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#67
In reply to #64

Re: Tool Sharpening ... Your Secret Transporter Room

12/23/2019 12:54 AM

I'm not suggesting mass migration to other planets might occur. I am suggesting that the house man race can improve its iong term chance of survival by starting populations on as many different planets as possible. growth on other planets even as boom and bust cycles here on earth is another way that the species can continue on growing without existential threat of the kind you imagine.

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#68
In reply to #64

Re: Tool Sharpening ... Your Secret Transporter Room

12/23/2019 1:05 AM

Hey if you are promoting a stable population through development of underdeveloped countries along with higher education for the population as a whole and strong defense of individual liberties including reproductive rights guaranteeing control over one's own body, I am all for it.

That misses the point. i was not promoting what should be done. I am merely pointing out that there are more than just the two possibilities you describe. It's not a value judgement. It's a judgement that says you have neglected numerous real possibilities. the

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#62
In reply to #58

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/21/2019 7:09 PM

Apparently, I have left a Profound Misunderstanding of My Goals

"...to put human reproduction as a whole under the control of some bureaucracy" is horrific.

One of my major contentions is that bureaucracies love increasing population since increasing populations expand the base of "common" people for bureaucracies to tax. I want the proletariat to perceive this fact and reject government actions to increase their base of people obligated to or dependent on a government wet nurse. Basically, an educated voter pool is an inoculation against this institutionalized theft which is why public education has ceased to actually educate. Self-reliance to big government is an anathema. That is why democrats pander to the unproductive and republicans discourage family planning. They are both "big state"-ists and they "compromise" to allow each other to perpetrate their chosen frauds to oppress the average Joe while operating their respective chosen Kabuki theaters. Fact: Excessively large populations are desperate and vulnerable to world oppression. Globalists, whether they are labeled liberal or conservative, know this fact and covet its ultimate conclusion. Their labels just select which set of oppressors win the race to the single prize.

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thewildotter

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#55

Re: Tool Sharpening

12/19/2019 6:59 AM

This looks like a good spot for these.

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