Previous in Forum: Brazing of Incoloy   Next in Forum: RV Calculation for Fin and Tube Type Heat Exchanger
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster #1

Evaporative Condenser

06/15/2019 5:03 PM

I have a water cooled evaporative condenser. The coil has galvanized carbon steel tubes. It has a certain heat dissipation duty. If I replace the old coil with new coil made of stainless steel 304 tubes, how much will the heat dissipation degrade? The thermal conductivity of SS304 is about three times less than carbon steel. The new coil has the same pipe diameter and internal volume.

I need a ballpark figure.

Thanks.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#1

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/15/2019 9:10 PM

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html

..."Type 304 is the most versatile and widely used stainless steel. It is still sometimes referred to by its old name 18/8 which is derived from the nominal composition of type 304 being 18% chromium and 8% nickel."...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#2

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/15/2019 9:23 PM

You have a series of factors that limit the heat flow through your condenser, of which the thermal resistance (inverse of conductivity) of the steel pipes is one. (It's like an electrical circuit with resistors in series.) The new steel pipes have 3 times the thermal resistance of the old.

It depends on how much the thermal resistance of the pipes compares with the total thermal resistance. If it is close to the total, the reduction in heat flow would be down to 1/3. If it is a small part of the total, there would be much less reduction.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 4496
Good Answers: 137
#3

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/16/2019 7:12 AM

There's a good chance the wall thickness of the SS tubes will be about 1/3 of the carbon steel, so resistance is unchanged.

Also, as Rixter says, the resistance to convective transfer to and from each side of the tubes is likely to be >> resistance to conduction through the tube wall. Similar situation to heat loss through a single-glazed window. If the room is at 20°C and outside temp -10°, total ΔT 30°, there's ~ 15° ΔT between room air and inside of glass, and 15° ΔT between outside of glass and outside air. ΔT across the glass likely to be < 1°.

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#4

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/16/2019 3:25 PM

~10%.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 6215
Good Answers: 248
#5

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/16/2019 11:05 PM

So why don't you use copper tubing? It has much better thermal conductivity and better corrosion resistance. You would need to use insulated couplings where the copper joins to other metals, to avoid electrolysis.

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/17/2019 3:15 AM

If this evap condenser is in an ammonia system, copper would be wrong.

In general, stainless steel is probably more corrosion-resistant than copper, but it would depend on specific fluid contact conditions.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#12
In reply to #7

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/17/2019 7:59 AM

...which the original poster has withheld from the forum.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#6

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/17/2019 2:57 AM

Whatever material is chosen it needs to be compatible with the fluids both sides of the wetted surface.

Whatever is driving the change in materials has not been revealed to the forum.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster #1
#8

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/17/2019 3:41 AM

The change is material is being proposed to increase the life of the coil.

Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/17/2019 3:49 AM

What is the environment? What seems to be attacking the life of the coil?

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/17/2019 5:12 AM

Quite - GA. This needs to be resolved before considering material change, as this has the potential to add another variable into the mix. One possibility is electrolytic corrosion between the coil materials and the materials-of-construction of the rest of the vessel, which have been withheld from the forum, as has such basic things as temperatures, pressures, and the nature of the fluids both sides of the heat exchange surface.

https://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

This one is at risk of becoming another one of those trickle-feed, "20 Questions" styles of thread.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#11

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/17/2019 7:58 AM

There are "tricks" that can be used to increase the performance of heat exchange surfaces, depending on details of the application. Subject to <...coil...> diameter, which has been withheld from the forum:

  • it may be possible to add devices inside the tubes, and
  • it may be possible to add baffles to the surfaces outside the tubes

capable of creating extra turbulence at a cost of a little more pressure drop. Which approach to take depends upon which side is the limiting one in the heat-exchange performance, which may be found by engaging the original equipment manufacturer in dialogue. In fact, in all cases, advice should be obtained from the original equipment manufacturer on performance.

If the surface of the <...coil...> is becoming corroded to toe point of justifying replacement then it is quite possible that the original materials for the rest of the vessel were incorrectly selected. A written scheme of examination is mandatory is several jurisdictions, so one might reasonably also test the vessel wall thickness at intervals to satisfy the company supplying burst/collapse indemnity insurance cover on the equipment to remain lawful.

If it is found that the vessel wall is corroding similarly to the <...coil...> then a replacement vessel might prove more attractive than repairing the existing one. The replacement might benefit from newer improved materials that may have become available since the existing vessel was put into service.

If in doubt, consult a local Process Engineer.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Evaporative Condenser

06/19/2019 7:21 AM

toe the

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 13 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Codemaster (1); dkwarner (1); PWSlack (5); Rixter (1); SolarEagle (1); Tornado (3)

Previous in Forum: Brazing of Incoloy   Next in Forum: RV Calculation for Fin and Tube Type Heat Exchanger

Advertisement