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Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/23/2019 11:55 AM

Hi experts,

I am a first time user.

I have been asked to install an electrical insulating gasket kit between a carbon steel flange and a P11 steel flange.

I tried google or wikipedia and did not find an answer.

Can you experts advise where i can get a ruling on the necessity of the gasket set?

thanks in advance.

Lum

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#1

Re: insulating kits for flanges between carbon steel and p11 alloys

08/23/2019 12:13 PM

You would need the all of the information regarding fluids or gases flowing in pipe, pressures encountered, temperature ranges, design life etc...the gasket material to avoid electrolysis would also need to be non-conducting material of a sufficient thickness to meet the spec...all these factors must be considered as well as operating environment...

https://www.tiogapipe.com/newsletter/issue2_p_grades.aspx

https://stepko.com/flange-isolation-gasket-kits/

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#2

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/23/2019 11:21 PM

Insulating gaskets sets are used for isolation of underground piping Transistions to above ground piping. They must be isolated to prevent corrosion cells from creating galvanic corrosion.

Any piping supply house servicing the oil patch will have them.

I also used mica gaskets to insulate piping in which in which we ran electrical current to heat the pipe and it’s contents.

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#3

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/24/2019 6:49 AM

Hi experts, thanks for leads.the fluid used are either inhibited water or heating oil; both used as heating medium in a heat recovery unit.

is that of any help to the question?

lum

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/24/2019 10:11 AM

If you don't have any information about the installation design, how do you expect to spec parts? Your original question seems to ask, is the gasket necessary?, to answer that question requires information about the installation...What exactly is your role here? Are you a student?

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/24/2019 11:28 AM

Hi Solar Eagle,

Thanks for your comment.

I am an engineer where the specification specified that insulating flanges are required for dissimilar metal.

There is no definition of dissimilar metal.

I understand that austernitic and ferritic metal are dissimilar.

However, is carbon steel and P11 alloy dissimilar in the sense that they are both ferritic metals.

I am trying to clarify the term dissimilar metal in this specification.

Thanks

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/24/2019 1:38 PM

Then you need to know the steel grade being used...just because they are both ferritic doesn't mean they're not dissimilar...

https://www.tiogapipe.com/assets/files/materials-compatibility-chart.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades

https://www.tiogapipe.com/newsletter/issue2_p_grades.aspx

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#11
In reply to #3

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/27/2019 11:40 AM

Not really, because <...inhibited water...> and <...heating oil...> are fluids with significantly different properties: electrical conductivity, and the associated potential for corrosive action on the wetted materials, being only one of them.

Why different materials are in contact with these fluids at any time is something of a mystery to the forum, as is the need for a material specification change while in contact with either of them.

Further, there is no mention of either temperatures or pressures, or the pH of the <...inhibited water...>. These things are fundamentally important in the design of any plant or the selection of materials of construction.

The best advice is to go back to the proverbial "horse's mouth", and ask there.

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#7

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/25/2019 3:05 AM

Thanks solar eagle.

I have no more comments.

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#8

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/25/2019 4:25 AM
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#9

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/26/2019 5:56 AM

thanks Redneck,

mush appreciated.

Lum

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#10

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/27/2019 11:34 AM

The <...ruling...> comes from the individual who <...asked...>. Ask that individual for the reasoning behind it. A bunch of anonymous strangers on a global internet Engineering forum is not going to be a better, or a quicker, source of information than that.

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#12

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/28/2019 12:58 AM

hi PW,

Unfortunately, the engineer whose organisation specified the clause could not provide a clarification.

since the last pose, the answer was in the site on galvanic corrosion from wikipedia.

carbon steel and p11 has the same volt potential and is therefore not subject to galvan9c corrosion.

thanks all for the comments.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/28/2019 1:57 AM
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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

09/17/2019 11:11 AM

hi solar eagle,

thanks for the lead.

lum sau weng

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

09/17/2019 7:54 AM

So it looks like the proverbial “blind leading the blind”. ��

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#14

Re: Insulating Kits for Flanges Between Carbon Steel and P11 Alloys

08/28/2019 9:22 AM

https://www.apsonline.com/gasketkits

As I stated previously, any reputable piping supply house will be able to sell you an insulation gasket set. See link above for an example. These gaskets are used to prevent galvanic corrosion cells creation especially with underground pipelines mating up with above ground piping.

Call your supply house

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