Betz Mystery Sphere: What Is It?

"Case closed..."

In your mind it seems. This was an easy find for you, but not what I asked for. I am skeptical of Skeptoid. From your link:

"There are many published news reports of the incident, and from these reports, we can glean that what the Betzes reported at the time is considerably less remarkable than what is now claimed on some of the paranormal websites that promote the Betz sphere as an alien artifact."

This at least shows there were newspaper reports. That's what I asked for. If there was nothing remarkable that the Betzes reported, then there wouldn't have been an article. I am looking for verification of what they said.

The uneven floors do not at all explain what the Betzes allegedly reported. Also I find the story of the balls falling off the luggage rack without being noticed rather shallow. From the front they would each put a large dent in the hood. From the back they would each put a large dent in the trunk. How do you not notice that?

So it's your position that this is an example of the lies told by the news media? Maybe it's Skeptoid that is lying.

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”

There is none....

I'm still trying to determine what the claims were. From my second link:

'Gerri Betz, was quoted in the ‘Palm Beach Post’ newspaper on April 15, 1974, stating “There must be high frequency waves from it. When we put our poodle beside the ball, she whimpers and puts her paws over her ears”. '

and

'In the April 16, 1974 of ‘News Sentinel’ in Lodi, California, Gerri was quoted “If you shake the ball vigorously and then place it on the ground, it feels just like a huge mexican jumping bean, which is trying to get away from you”.'

and

'...April 12, 1974 edition of the “St. Petersburg Times”. “ She told me to put it on the floor and give it a push. It rolled a ways and stopped. So what? She said, ‘just wait a minute’. It turned by itself and rolled to the right about 4 feet. It stopped. Then it turned again and rolled to the left about 8 feet, made a big arc and came back right to my feet.”'

Anyone have access to any of these newspapers or any other about the sphere?

One thing bothered me when I read this link. Why would the US Navy seize the sphere if they hadn't seen its weird behavior? And when does the government give back what it took?

..."Mrs. Betz then called the US Navy base directly across the water from the island and asked if they could examine it; perhaps it was theirs. They did so, but returned it to the Betzes once they verified that it was not Navy property. They X-rayed it and did a metallurgical test and found it to be high grade yet common stainless steel; hollow with a shell approximately 1/2 inch thick (about 13 mm); measured 7.96 inches in diameter (202.2 mm); and weighed 21.34 pounds (9.68 kg). The numbers added up, it was the right weight for that much stainless steel. Its surface was scuffed but seamless, with only one identifying mark: a tiny triangle about 3mm long."..

Nothing to see here, move along....

As to the reports of the sphere rolling in an irregular fashion, that can easily be explained by unequal mass distribution, ala the "trick cue ball".

Not to mention that an 8" cannonball launched from the roof of a moving vehicle at perhaps 40 mph might have killed somebody or hit another vehicle or immovable object, the shape may have been altered slightly...and I don't see any reason it would be balanced...so it likely would not roll in a perfect line...even on a flat surface....

You can buy a remote controlled ball for about $40...

So I guess it's possible to build a remote controlled steel orb if you really want, that will roll around at your command, play music, flashing lights, really whatever you can dream up, not exactly alien technology...but would have been a hoot back in the 60's....

Yeah you could build a remote controlled plastic ball like the one shown (with antenna inside), but a smooth steel ball would have no antenna.

Well you could make a plastic insert at the equator of the orb that was colored to look like the surrounding metal, again not really what I would call alien technology...

"Not to mention that an 8" cannonball launched from the roof of a moving vehicle at perhaps 40 mph might have killed somebody or hit another vehicle..."

But due to the curve and location of the highway, the ball would have been launched away from the property, not toward it. That's another reason I find this explanation ridiculous.

And here we have a slight contradiction to where the ball was found:

Do I think that the sphere was dropped from Air Force One to distract from Watergate? NO. The article does bring up the slight possibility that there is artificial intelligence inside (a bit more that the toy shown in the top photo).

Found the house...

https://jaxpsychogeo.com/north/fort-george-island-neff-house-and-betz-sphere/

https://www.abandonedfl.com/the-neff-house/

Well, that certainly adds fodder to the fire!

Perhaps the metal sphere captured a ghost somehow...?!!

Is Betz actually Father Guido Sarducci?

A possibility. Knowing that people died at that castle adds credence to it. It is commonly thought that spirits hang around where they died especially if they have "unfinished business." And this is likely why the ball is also called "The Ghost Ball" in my first link.

Another thing was they mentioned it responded to music. A bell will do that if you hit a resonant frequency.

Is it possible the ball was cracked? ...that would explain some stuff...

Like what?

Resonate frequency noise, movement, the rattling, a chip had broken off inside because of the crack....

In my experience a crack would reduce resonance. I had an old piano that didn't sound right. I found a crack in the sound board. It sounded much better after that was repaired. A crack might provide an exit for the "organ music" though. I don't see any reason why it would help movement, the opposite IMHO. The rattling sound may be explained here:

If any of you can find the rest of this article please submit it.

Since when does a VW bus/van have a trunk?

Or a hood.

Good point. Still I find it highly unlikely one would roll into the middle of burnt brush on an 88 acre woodland in Fort George Island, Florida.

What would be unlikely about that, and what does the burnt brush have to do with anything?

The "In Search Of" and "Ancient Aliens" programs I saw said the ball was found when they were fighting a brush fire on their private land. They alleged that the ball, maybe still hot from its fall from space, started the fire.

I can't imagine that the ball would roll more than 5 feet whether in bare dirt or brush sticks and ashes or that it would hop over piles of the same. In any case if the man was there he was trespassing. That seems very unlikely.

Yeah it's right along A1A, so a scenic route along the coast...Maybe he stopped in the park for a little down time....

A park? My link says it was private property, and didn't give the exact location.

https://www.floridastateparks.org/parks-and-trails/fort-george-island-cultural-state-park

Nice park, but the point was that the sphere was found on private land, not a public park. Since you live in Florida, can you determine what fraction that park is of Fort George Island? (just curious)

Well as you must certainly be aware, things change over time, and at this time, the entire area is state parks and preserves...

OK thanks. I wondered about that. If I zoom in on the map to where the road is labeled, Fort George Island is labeled in the middle, and the state park is labeled in the top right corner. I found a link that says the island is uninhabited. I've never been to Florida, but hope to visit there some day.

I believe the green colored part is the park, and the southern tip appears to be part of Mayport, with the St John's river intersecting the city...There appears to be a Naval Station there, and that would tie in with the story...

The southernmost tip might be the location, it appears to be outside the park, but I can't say for sure...

Check out some scenic locations on Ft George Island....

We all know that there is fluff and embellishment in articles in newspapers, magazines and books for the purpose of making money. There's plenty of it in the links that have been posted. Let's look at the Skeptoid article you posted here. Paragraph 2:

"The Palm Beach Post reported on April 18 that Lottie Robinson recognized the ball from the pictures, then went and got her own out of the garage where it had sat for some 15 years. Technicians from the St. Regis Company paper mill identified it as a ball check valve from some large pipes used in their factory, and that had been scrapped 15 years before. Somehow that ball had found its way from a scrap dealer to Mrs. Robinson's son, and from there to her garage. It was very close, but not identical, in size and weight to the Betz sphere."

The word recognized makes it look like the same ball as the Betz ball. How long the Robinson ball sat on its shelf has no bearing on anything nor does how long ago the balls were scrapped.. The word identified makes it look like the technicians can tell one ball from another. The article purports to tell you how the Robinson ball got to their garage. That also has no bearing on anything. Now paragraph 3:

"Seeing this, Robert Edwards, president of a Jacksonville, FL equipment supply company, picked up the phone. He showed a UPI reporter a brand new stainless steel ball, manufactured by Bell & Howell in Bridgeport, CT. Edwards and the reporter uncrated it, weighed and measured it, and found that it was 8 inches across and weighed just over 21 pounds...exactly the same as the Betz sphere."

But exactly disagrees with paragraph 2. In the links posted here, the Betz sphere is commonly called the 22 pound ball. Now paragraph 4:

"...For one thing, the ball sat quietly on display inside the Betz home for nearly two weeks, and is not reported to have ever moved on its own at all, except for when someone took it down to experiment with it."

That is not in dispute. The Betz's had it for weeks before Terry played his guitar.

"...Neither the US Navy nor J. Allen Hynek reported observing the ball do anything unusual whatsoever. Neither corroborated Carl Willson's assertion that it had odd magnetic properties, or that it was broadcasting a radio signal."

That was not their task. Their task was to determine if it was Navy property (from the same link). It is very unlikely they played a guitar to it or rolled it on the floor.

I have already critiqued the rest of it.

Just can't get my head around the fact that we are discussing this rubbish on an "Engineering" forum, but must admit that I find it somewhat amusing.

Thanks for your comment. There have been several "What is it"s on this forum, usually for items found on their own property. I can't think of a better place, as engineers have had physics classes, and they generally have more intelligence than the average person. They have brought up resonance and mechanical toys and explanations applicable to this thread. This one has been more fun for me than any in quite a while. No bullies of trolls hijacked it at the beginning or tried to make it political . That is a welcome change. I enjoy a good discussion.

On the downside we have some cowards who mark on topic posts off topic without telling why. Probably to indicate they disagree with my position, even though I had not stated my position. Many of my posts had wording that would support any position you could take. I like to blow holes in illogic. That doesn't mean I have taken a position. I enjoy a good debate. No one has been willing (or able) to answer any of my "engineering" questions.

I have threatened to leave this forum before, but where is a bored retired engineer to go? I have been on Physics Forums some, but they have some insufferable know-it-alls there who think they are God's gift to mankind (along with some good ones). And they have a rule that you can't talk about personal theories. You have to stick with "accepted science" even though cosmology and all physics is theory. Jorrie went there and removed his blog from here. That was one of my main attractions to this site. I have never understood why they have blogs here. Anyway this site has gone downhill to almost sea level. With the rising seas, it is doomed.

Imagine what would happen if the ball had a small heavy ball inside.If one shook it,the ball inside would continue to circulate when the ball was put down,and possibly gyrate in many directions as the ball circulated.

Good point. That would explain quote 2 in my post 10 except that (allegedly) the Navy reported that there was a dense fluid around the two balls inside. A fluid would prevent the effect you mentioned IMHO.

Just a couple of things, not saying one way or the other.

Where is it now?

If you live near Nasa....

If it has suddenly disappeared, that is in itself suspicious.

But if the holders of the object went National Enquirer...

Seems a bit odd is all.

Agreed.

"Where is it now?"

Unknown.

The National Enquirer was offering a $50,000 prize for proof of anything alien. Nothing odd about trying to win in. This was a publicity stunt IMHO, since there is very little chance anyone could (or can) do it. Proof is in the eye of the beholder.

As for NASA, I can imagine them disappearing it.

Good morning gentlemen. Before I submit my conclusions I want to ask some engineering questions that you may or may not be able to answer.

1. Do either of the steel balls from the St. Regis Company paper mill or those manufactured by Bell & Howell in Bridgeport, CT. have an engraved triangle on their surface and no other identifying marks?

2. Can a powerful X-ray determine that an 8" metal ball has a shell 1/2" thick?

3. Can a powerful X-ray determine that an 8" metal ball has a fluid inside and two small balls that are more dense than the shell?

4. Can the composition of an 8" metal ball be determined by metallurgical analysis without drilling into it's surface?

5. What equipment did the Navy lab have in 1974 that determined that the ball could withstand 120,000 psi (assuming that they did)? That claim was made here.

6. How much pressure can a hollow 8" stainless steel ball with a 1/2" shell withstand?

7. How do you manufacture the ball in #6?

8. How do you manufacture an 8" metal ball has a fluid less dense material and two small balls inside.

Here is the best article I have found for the sphere. It has a picture of the VW bus with the luggage rack. It seems the balls on that would have rolled off the side while turning:

mysteriousuniverse.org/2012/04/the-betz-mystery-sphere-alien-artifact-or-doomsday-device/

# Radio transmission of a meeting on Vulcan that was recorded by a spy #

“This meeting will come to order!” [clank] “We are here to assess a possible danger to Vulcan or an ally. My decision is final.”

“What kind of danger?”

“We have a report from Earth of a possible explosive powerful enough to wipe out an entire planet. It may have been dropped there by an unknown civilization.”

“How did we find out about this?”

“A Vulcan operative found out on their internet on a site called CR4. All data from that thread has been printed out for each of you and has been uploaded to the defense computer.”

“Where is the explosive now?”

“We don’t know. That’s one of the reasons we are here. And we’re not sure it’s an explosive.”

“Why Not?”

“There is conflicting data. You’ll see on page 1 that a scientist concluded there were elements inside the thing with atomic numbers of 140 or more, but on page 4 the U.S. Navy said it was hollow sphere.”

“We don’t know of elements that high, and besides these are Humans. They don’t know much.”

“What bothers me is that the sources disagree with each other and one contradicts itself.”

“That’s because Humans are known to lie. They still use money. That is probably why.”

“They also commit murder. What barbarians!”

“If you will check your Vulcan history you will find murder here too.”

“Strike that from the record. We are not here to discuss Vulcan history.” [clank]

“Well they sometimes lie to get power.”

“Enough of this speculation. We need to get answers. Kimbit, ask the computer what the danger is from the thing. They call it the Betz Sphere.”

“OK, done. The computer says Insufficient or conflicting data.”

“We need to find the thing and examine it ourselves.”

“Why is it called the Betz Sphere?”

“It was found on the Betz property in Florida of the USA, Earth. How it got there is another mystery.”

“Yes, some say it fell from outer space, some say the USA President dropped it there, some say it flew off a vehicle’s luggage rack, and some say it washed up, like from a hurricane or something.”

“Enough. Kimbit, ask the computer which is most likely.”

“Same answer as before, Sir”

“No surprise there. Well we need to get a time machine and go back to before 1974 and watch to see how it got there.”

“Sir, the Vulcan Science Academy has determined that time travel is impossible.”

“Uh, er, uh, hem, yes that is true. But if it was, that would be the way to go.”

“I see that the sphere is claimed to have strange behavior, coming back after you push it and so forth.”

“Not so strange if it has an internal motor and weight. Many kids toys do that.”

“But one report said it would find the end of a glass table and go back to the center.”

“That’s not so strange, but if the table is tipped and the sphere doesn’t roll off, that is.”

“Right, that suggests anti-gravity. The Humans don’t have it, so where was the thing made?”

“That report stands alone. No other backs it up, so I think it was a lie.”

“We can’t afford to take that chance. Kimbit, ask the computer where the thing was made.”

“It says most likely on Earth by the Bell & Howell Corp.”

“I read they were used by a paper mill as a check valve before they changed technology.

“Then it’s a mystery how the mechanism got inside. It’s reported to be seamless, and Humans still don’t have trans-metal technology to this day.”

“There may be no mechanism inside. There were reports of poltergeist activity, doors banging, organ music and such. It might have been the ghost pushing the thing around.”

“I agree. Old castles like the Betz house are in Earth folk lore for having organ music played by ghosts.”

“Most likely it would be Boris Karloff doing the playing, and trick passageways in the house.”

“Stop this nonsense! The Vulcan Science Academy has determined that ghosts and poltergeists don’t exist.”

“Kimbit, ask the computer where the thing is now.”

“It says no report of it leaving earth, so most likely in a bag inside a wood chest at the Betz home.”

“We could have an operative find it. It can be recognized as having a small triangle about 3mm long.”

“But what if it wasn’t made on Earth?”

“Kimbit, ask the computer where similar balls are made.”

“OK. Well there are 6 star systems that make balls about that size. Only one with a magnetic steel shell, but it’s ten percent smaller.”

“Hello, I’d like to say that a non-Earthling could have taken an Earth ball and put an explosive in it, then sent it back to Earth.”

“Quite right. Somebody who wants to prevent them from galactic travel. I think we know who that is.”

“Wait – we’re speculating again. Until the ball is found we could take the Navy’s word that it’s safe. The immediate problem could be solved by cutting relations with Earth. They would no longer be our ally.”

“Excellent idea. Make it so. Meeting adjourned.” [clank]

FOUND IT!!!

Its the original design for the Death Star. Size is relative.

I found it hiding in this metal enclosure....

If the little triangle isn't visible you'll have to remove the ball. If it's on the seam it may leak a little. Watch out for Vulcans - they'll try to take it from you!