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Anonymous Poster

SS Weld rust stain removal

10/24/2007 10:54 PM

I would like to know the process (quick and simpler) which will remove weld rust stain on SS material.

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#1

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/25/2007 10:36 AM

Guest,

Have you tried HF (Hydrofluoric acid)?

Just be careful... The stuff is NASTY. It's vapors can etch glass, and eat skin.

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Anonymous Poster
#24
In reply to #1

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

08/30/2010 1:51 AM

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Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/25/2007 11:43 PM

There is a proprietary product generally called ' pickling paste' . I don't know the chemical composition but it is generally applied at the completion of a job to all welds.

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#3

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/25/2007 11:51 PM

While HF could be messy and nasty it can be preferably used for final touches after achieving maximum stain removal by grinding and power brushing - using only SS compatible grinding discs and brushes. Post cleaning should be well planned, too, mind you. Best wishes.

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#4

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 1:12 AM

Hi guest,

What method of welding have you adopted, I want to know, is whether its arc welding with stainless steel electrodes or with TIG. As if its with TIG, the chances of having welded area getting spotted or carbonised would be very low. Secondly, irrelevant, of method of welding, we have certain product, which contains, concentrated portion of HF, which has to be applied prior to the welding commences and it gives magical result in preventing, the blacking at the back too.

do let me know, with your email ID.

Thanks

RAJIV

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#9
In reply to #4

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 6:37 AM

Rajiv

application of Hf before welding is interesting.Can you provide more details & source.

Ratnagiri

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#5

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 1:47 AM

Pickling is a process for chemical cleaning of stainless steel products. It can be used to clean not only the welds, but whole the stainless steel product. We used that process a lot of times for cleaning a pressure vessels fabricated from stainless steel.

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#6

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 1:52 AM

Here is an old file saved in my computer that answers your question on cleaning of stainless steel. Aluminum is also discussed and may be useful to other readers as well. I am just posting the whole article since I cannot provide a link. I hope it is not too long.

The Importance of Chemical Treatment Associated with the Welding of Stainless Steel and Aluminium

Presented to the Philippine Welding Society, 11th October 1997 by John W. Hill BA (Chem) General Manager Specialty Products, Callington Haven Pty Ltd, Sydney, Australia.

1. INTRODUCTION

Stainless steel has found widespread applications in industry in areas such as process plant and equipment, building facades, railing, storage tanks and piping in food and pharmaceutical factories, and many others.

Stainless steel is often perceived as being resistant to corrosion, relatively inert and requiring minimal treatment in fabrication, and little maintenance.

The term passivity refers to the natural corrosion resistant property of many metals and alloys including chromium, titanium and stainless steels.

Passivity is conferred on stainless steel by an invisible nanometre thick film of chrome oxide. The stability of this film depends largely on the corrosive environment in which the stainless steel is found.

In a clean environment the passive film forms spontaneously following its removal over a period of at least 8 to 24 hours. This means that stainless steels are self passivating "under favourable conditions".

Disruption of the passive film by chemicals, mechanical action, embedded iron particles, or oxygen starvation can readily occur in the workshop or during fabrication. Surface free iron particles, dust, grit and iron oxide contaminants arise from handling, fabrication/forming, welding, grinding, machining, paint and crayon marks, polishing, tumbling and workshop cross contamination.

These contaminants penetrate the passive film, absorb and generate chlorides, ferric chloride or produce inorganic chlorides by the decomposition of organic compounds such as PVC and marking materials.

Chemical treatment of stainless steel is important to maximise product quality in all stages of the fabrication life cycle, from initial cleaning, to spatter protection, pickling, passivation, waste treatment and final cleaning of the finished product.

Aluminium also requires specific chemical treatment prior to welding, following welding to remove weld scale and burn marks, spatter protection and final surface cleaning of the finished product if required.

2. STAINLESS STEEL CLEANING PROCESSES

All stages of the fabrication life cycle of stainless steel require specific chemical cleaning treatment. These include :

  • surface preparation, cleaning and / or degreasing
  • weld spatter protection
  • descaling / pickling
  • passivation
  • reatment of acidic waste for trade waste compliance
  • cleaning of finished product
  • deoxidising of surface corrosion for maintenance

Chemical treatment agents for the stainless steel fabricator

  • solvent degreaser / cleaner
  • anti spatter spray
  • pickling solution or paste
  • passivating solution or paste
  • neutralising solution for waste acid treatment

Solvent cleaners

Traditionally, readily available and low cost petroleum based products such as white spirits, kerosene, thinners or chlorinated solvents have been routinely used for surface cleaning and degreasing.

In many countries today, occupational health and safety and environmental regulations have focused attention on safer non toxic and biodegradable alternatives to these flammable and/or toxic chemicals.

Solvents are generally preferred over water based detergents in order to minimise the presence of water which may aid corrosion in some cases, especially when held in crevices and corners.

Typical applications can include removal of adhesive protective laminates, finger prints, permanent marker pen or crayon marks and machine oil.

Anti Spatter Chemicals

Welding of metals often results in molten spatter falling on the surface of the steel being welded. This spatter solidifies leaving hard lumps which can only be removed by abrasion or polishing.

Mechanical treatment of the spatter deposits is time consuming and can be avoided by the use of special anti spatter sprays.

Solvent based products are preferred for stainless steel, while water based products are now emerging for treatment of mild steel.

Pickling solutions and pastes

Pickling is the removal of the oxide film from the surface of the metal by chemical means. An exposure to high temperature (e.g. during welding or heat treatment) will scale the surface. In the case of stainless steel, such high temperature scale has inferior corrosion resistance and must be removed. Pickling using formulations of hydrofluoric (HF) and nitric (HNO3) acids, removes the scale and helps to restore corrosion resistance through auto passivation providing the ambient conditions are appropriate. For applications in aggressive environments, it is advisable to develop full corrosion resistance by a passivation treatment subsequent to pickling operation.

Pickling agents can be sprayed over an entire surface, used in dip applications or as a paste applied to the weld and heat affected zone.

Pickling of stainless steel welds helps to remove both the oxide scale and free iron contamination. Once the pickling paste is completely rinsed away, the treated area will be chemically clean. As such, the surface has an enhanced ability to react with atmospheric oxygen to spontaneously passivate, providing the area is free from dirt and outside sources of contamination

Where the aesthetic appearance of the stainless steel is important, the pickling process will remove unsightly discoloration, leaving a clean professional finish.

Why passivate?

The failure of stainless components due to corrosion can reach catastrophic proportions. The cost in time, materials, rectification and lost production can be tremendous.

If passivation is not carried out stainless steel can rust due to surface free iron, and since chlorides are also often absorbed from the atmosphere, some ferric chloride will be produced.

Prolonged contact with ferric chloride will eventually initiate pitting and crevice corrosion on the stainless steel surface.

Therefore, proper passivation with a nitric acid based agent will dissolve the surface contamination and assist in the optimal restoration of the chrome oxide passive layer.

It should be understood that this passive surface condition is not a static situation. The chrome oxide layer is constantly affected by the environment and is slowly lost, but at the same time it reacts with oxygen to reform. The process is in dynamic equilibrium. Only when the balance is brought towards loss of the passive film does corrosion occur.

Passivating Solutions and Pastes

Pickling not only removes the scale around the heat affected area, but it also removes chrome oxide and surface iron and metal contamination, and therefore leaves the surface of the steel readily available to react with atmospheric oxygen to restore the passive field (i.e. auto passivation).

The passive film restoration is dependent on the availability of oxygen for its formation, and also subject to inhibition by atmospheric pollution, airborne chlorides (present as sodium chloride - NaCl - especially near coastal areas) and the presence of mild steel in the same workshop if not strictly controlled.

Where the chromium content is in excess of 12.0%, the formation of a chromium oxide passive film on the surface is possible either through auto-passivation or enhanced passivation with nitric acid.

Enhanced passivation with a nitric acid based passivating agent is recommended following grinding, pickling or polishing of stainless steel where the surface has been made more active by these processes. The passivating agent enhances the passivation process in a more uniform manner to restore the chrome oxide film and help to prevent future corrosion following installation of the fabricated product.

When stainless steel is commissioned into high corrosion environments, such as at sea, near the sea, in polluted environments etc., then use of a passivating agent is highly recommended to ensure a resilient passive film is achieved.

If stainless steel is corroded in situ, it may be repaired by either polishing or chemical deoxidisation. In either case, the surface of the steel will be active and require a passivation treatment.

Neutralising solutions for trade waste compliance

Many companies now face the implementation of ISO 14000 Environmental Management Systems and ISO 18000 Occupational Health & Safety Systems.

Environmental and occupational health and safety issues are strongly impacting industrial firms which discharge liquid waste, especially pickling and passivating chemical waste.

Low cost alkaline solutions or pastes can be used to remove these chemicals after use from the surface of the steel, or added to holding tanks containing the acidic waste prior to discharge into the sewer or water system.

Pickling chemicals contain hydrofluoric acid and nitric acid and are hazardous. Removal of the pickling agent using a neutralising solution also helps to aid worker safely.

3. ALUMINIUM CLEANING PROCESSES

Most stages of the fabrication life cycle require some form of chemical treatment, including:

  • pre weld cleaning
  • weld spatter protection
  • treatment of acidic waste for trade waste compliance
  • cleaning of finished product and prior to painting
  • deoxidising of surface corrosion prior to welding for maintenance

Chemical treatment agents for the aluminium fabricator

  • pre weld cleaner
  • post weld pickling agent
  • surface brighteners
  • solvent degreaser

Pre weld cleaner

Pre weld cleaning is very important for aluminium to ensure an oxide and water break free surface is obtained to maximise the quality of the weld.

This can be accomplished with an aluminium compatible solvent or non etching acidic detergent.

Acid cleaners are generally composed of either organic or inorganic acids such as phosphoric or gluconic, for example, along with water miscible solvents and organic wetting and emulsifying agents. Soil is removed by etching, wetting, emulsification or dissolution.

Best results for pre weld cleaning usually achieved by hand wiping.

Post weld pickling agents

Mild etching of aluminium after welding can be used to remove heavy oxides, corrosion products and heat discoloration. Hydrofluoric and sulphuric acid solutions or pastes can effectively treat the weld area and heat affected zone.

It is important that stainless steel pickling agents are not used on aluminium as they are far to strong and would result in significant and excessive etching.

Aluminium Brighteners

Aluminium pickling acids or an appropriate acidic detergent will remove oxides and corrosion products without etching the aluminium surface and leave a clean bright surface.

Application by immersion, brushing, spraying or hand wiping.

Removal of corrosion prior to maintenance

Aluminium pickling solutions or pastes can also be used prior to welding to remove resilient surface corrosion and oxides which would interfere with weld quality.

SUMMARY

Quality finish during fabrication of stainless steel and aluminium can be enhanced by chemical treatment prior to and after welding.

In particular, corrosion resistance can be maximised through the passivation of stainless steel following pickling, grinding or polishing during fabrication or maintenance.

New chemical treatment technologies has proven to be more cost effective than traditional mechanical and labour intensive methods for stainless steel and aluminium pre and post weld treatment.

REFERENCES

Full details of the pickling and passivation processes are available in ASTM A380-94a, Standard Practice for Cleaning, Descaling and Passivation of Stainless Steel Parts, Equipment and Systems

The Australian Stainless Steel Development Association - Australian Stainless 1996 Reference Manual Guide to Stainless Steel Passivation - Halide Technology Pty Ltd Metal Finishing - Guidebook and Directory Issue '93 Proprietary Test Data - Callington Haven Pty Ltd, Sydney

John Hill
Callington Haven, AUSTRALIA

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#7

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 2:02 AM

What kind of your SS (316 or 304,...) and your lot (big or small)?

Please tell us.

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#8

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 3:44 AM

Just a word about the pickling pastes and solutions etc. A contractor of ours did this on site to a large piece of stainless steel but did not read the instructions correctly. He left the paste on too long and did not clean it properly afterwards. It went orange with rust.

He got it right the second time and all was well in the end. Just a bit of bright orange filtered down into the tiling grout beneath, as a reminder.

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#10

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 8:54 AM

We use the electro polish method. We use a 12v power supply (battery charger) and attach a stainless steel rod to the Positive + side. This rod is wrapped with a few layers of cloth material. The part is attached to the negative side. The cloth covered rod is dipped in phosphoric acid and then the weld area is swabbed. The rust and all weld discoloration is removed within a few seconds. Be careful because the cloth will wear and the probe may arc on the part.

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Anonymous Poster
#22
In reply to #10

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

09/15/2009 10:16 PM

"We use the electro polish method. We use a 12v power supply (battery charger) and attach a stainless steel rod to the Positive + side. This rod is wrapped with a few layers of cloth material. The part is attached to the negative side. The cloth covered rod is dipped in phosphoric acid and then the weld area is swabbed. The rust and all weld discoloration is removed within a few seconds. Be careful because the cloth will wear and the probe may arc on the part."

this is a good lead , with tests and trials I found that the positive goes to the part ,neg. tothe rod which I hammered flat and bent the end and also added a #97 automotive lamp in the circuit to limit thecurrent to .5 amps this stops arcing damage and also surface etching (dullness) I am working with 304 16 gauge #4 brush finish results are98% both sides also I used paper towel doubled over instead to get in the corners . THe phosforic acid I used is called naval jelly from the local Home Hardware store CANADA . SAFE ,EASY, CHEAP, PROF. RESULTS

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#11

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 8:55 AM

It should never have discoloured in the first place but know that it has do as a few people have said, use pickling paste or if it is a large fabrication dip it in a pickling bath.

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#12

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 9:49 AM

Use a Stainless steel wire brush hand or mechanical. Do Not I repeat DO NOT F%$K with hydroflouric acid. One drop of concentrated HF on a finger tip will decalcify the bone and can result in amputation of said digit. That is if you are lucky.

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#21
In reply to #12

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

09/20/2008 10:33 AM

Do Not I repeat DO NOT F%$K with hydrofluoric acid. One drop of concentrated HF on a finger tip will de calcify the bone and can result in amputation of said digit.

GOOD ADVISE..........I was trained that Hydrofluoric acid can be VERY nasty in concentration. They said it goes to your bone marrow and eats its way out, probably an exaggeration but its bad stuff to play with.

We must be careful what we tell people without knowing their background and all the other variables in play.

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#13

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 9:54 AM

The reason you have a weld (red) rust stain in the first place was probably from improper preperation ie. cleaning with a carbon steel wire wheel. Red stain is from contamination.

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#14

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 10:38 AM

I do alot of stainless steel cable railing posts, and we take great care to avoid free iron particle contamination. First, only stainess steel brushes, scotch brite pads, and carbide bits are used in fabrication. We also only use cutting fluids that are free of petroleum, (tap free green), because we ran into the problem of stains showing long after we thought it was clean around drilled holes and such.

We passivate, using a product called Citrisurf....it comes in a gallon or larger container, and two forms, paste and liquid. You can google for the source. Better yet, call and talk to the sales person, he will give you the information on temperature of water, mix ratio, time in bath, etc. For the paste, it is brush on, wait, rinse off (several times). It is environmentally friendly.

We submerge in poly drums we made to fit the pieces we use of 2" square 316L stainless stell tube and follow directions.

There is obviously an agressive cleaning of the part to remove surface contamination and obvious defects from the part first, and then as an added step, we test it in a solution of copper sulfate after cleaning, which shows up any free iron particles on the surface by coloring them copper like.

We build cable railing systems for sea coast environments, and believe you me, you had also better tell the owner how to care for them in the future...because the chloridic environment is not through with them in any manner.

I am a member, but was not logged in

David

Charleston sc

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#15

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 11:16 AM

we use Oakite 33 from a company called Chemetall Oakite Products go to http://www.oakite.com

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 2:14 PM

SS welding requires good amount of preparation before and after welding to avoid contamination, rusting , decolorisation etc. some of the steps are,

Cleaning before welding: Because of their high Cr content, SS surface develop tenacious Chromium Oxide film which interferes with welding. For High quality welding, the joint surfaces and also at least 12 mm on each side of the groove (irrespective of the process used) must be cleaned by either of the following techniques prior to welding.

1. Brushing with SS wire brush which has not been used for any other purpose.

2. Sand (or) grit blasting using clean sand and grit.

3. Machining and grinding using chloride free cutting fluid

4. Pickling in nitric acid solution of 10 to 20 % strength.

Equal importance is to ensure that the surfaces are free from carbon and hydrocarbon contamination caused by oil, grease, waxes, cutting fluids, primers etc. and achieved by solvent cleaning.

Cleaning After Welding: It is well known fact that SS is rust and corrosion resistant only when its surface is in polished condition. This resistance is supposed to be continuous due to thin film of Chromium oxide formed on the surface.. If this continuous film is broken due to the presence of crevices, blow-holes, etc. the attack by atmosphere or by chemicals can be as rapid as on mild steel.

That is why for avoiding corrosion, SS weld joints should be finished by grinding and subsequent polishing, if they are expected to give maximum corrosion resistance. No doubt it is expensive proposition and degree to which is it is to be pursued should be determined by the nature of corrosive condition to be met in service.

In any case , weld reinforcement on SS welds must be ground out, as they are stress raisers and lead to stress corrosion when exposed to certain corrosive atmospheres and chemicals. The degree of finish depending upon service conditions and direct surface contact. Joint design should help to give accessibility for surface finishing operations and maintain continuity of the surface.

With un-stabilized grades, severe overheating of the HAZ also impairs the corrosion resistance.

Extreme care is to be taken to avoid overheating ( discoloring occurs when the surface temperature raises above 300 0 C.) during welding and or any subsequent operations like grinding etc. Excessive heat will tend to clog the grinding wheel and it becomes glazed. The polishing wheels should be worked with oscillatory motion to break up the polishing lines and wheel direction should be frequently changed to prevent the abrasive cutting grooves. After grinding and polishing the final step is buffing containing finely woven calico ( 90 to 95 count) and fine powdered abrasives free from sulphur and iron to give mirror fish best results.

Above methods are apart from Pickling (helps to remove both the oxide scale and free iron contamination) and passivation done to avoid corrosion.

Trust above details will help to avoid impending problems while welding SS materials.

SRIDHAR. Advance Institute of welding Technology - Chennai - India.

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#16

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 1:06 PM

Do not know what your quality proceedures are.

I had operated a restricted design and manufacturing facility, which means we only worked on nonferrous materials. We did this because we built equipment for not only the food and dairy, but the pharmecutical industries.

And the reason why, is containimation can occur to the weld, an example,is that filler rod, can drop on the floor or bench and pick up containiments no matter how small. Use that filler and you weld will rust.

So if your weld is contaimimated, cleaning the weld is only a short term fix. because there is containiments in your weld itself and will rust later.

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

10/26/2007 2:33 PM

"So if your weld is contaimimated, cleaning the weld is only a short term fix. because there is containiments in your weld itself and will rust later."

Truth here.

milo

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#19

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

11/01/2007 3:33 AM

Try this publication of Outokumpu:

http://www.outokumpu.com/applications/upload/pubs_113142858.pdf

hope this help you

S.

www.corrosionist.com

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

09/16/2009 2:23 AM

i'd like to know why someone, 4 people, said that this is an "OFF TOPIC"....??? please give me a reason; maybe sharing knowledge is considered "OFF TOPIC" by someone in this forum and they think that is better to be ignorant ..

regards

S

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#20

Re: SS Weld rust stain removal

01/20/2008 9:31 AM

I have same problem with SS weldings: rust stain corrosion on open air about 6 months after chemical pickling and passivation - even after weldings were polished.

At 1st time i suspected disruption of TIG welding process - too high current strength and welding speed, but it was OK

Material thickness, mm I, A Ar, l/min Welding speed, mm/min
1 40 ... 70 3,5 ... 4 30 ... 60
2 80 ... 130 5 ... 6 20 ... 30
3 120 ... 160 6 ... 7 15 ... 30

What is the real reason of stains? Something wrong with the shield gas?

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