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Transient Voltages

02/05/2020 5:06 PM

I am not really electrically proficient so,, here we go.

Concerning electrical voltages. Transient and other wise

We have a server set up which has run fine for the last while.

The entire set up (2 servers and a security unit) is on an isolated ground circuit with a power conditioner and the related UPS's. We just had a complete shut down of all equipment. When some were restated one UPS was reading 149 volts on a normal 120± volt system and the other 130 volts. I did some voltage checks at the outlet and at the breaker box. All were reading 117.9 volts.

Plugged the system into another isolated ground circuit and every thing powered back up fine.

Can any one give my some ideas of why and where from we got the high readings on the UPS.

I can think of a few obvious things:

faulty power conditioner

faulty readings on the UPS's

Possible neutral problem

Your suggestions greatly appreciated.

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#1

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/05/2020 5:38 PM

Power readings can fluctuate for a time after or before a power outage...I would wait for the readings to stabilize before taking any notice....

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#2

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/05/2020 9:00 PM

1) Were the UPS units loaded when the measurements were being made?

2) Were the loads the same for both the first and second isolated circuits?

3) Do the two systems connect to each other? (signal cable between them connecting grounds?)

4) I might not be the only one that is not confident of what is going on with these isolated ground power grid circuits. Does each circuit have its own ground wire back to a common "star ground" point such as at the service entrance of the building or the breaker box of that floor of the office? If not then how are your grounds wired up? Is the power transformer isolated so that both hot and neutral are isolated from ground?

5) Are the measurements repeatable?

6) Do all outlets have a very low voltage from neutral to ground and the full voltage from hot to ground?

7) Once again, I don't understand your grounding so this might be an off-the-wall question. Are the UPS units rated to work in an isolated ground circuit such as you are using? Is it possible that the UPS units are not suppose to work as you are using them and actually there is something wrong with the "good" isolated circuit causing it to (incorrectly) work very well?

8) With the provided information the voltages between the power conditioner output and UPS input are not known. What is the make and model of the power conditioner and is it working properly?

9) I'm wondering why the title of the posting is "Transient Voltages". I'm reading the posting as steady state. Is there something transient going on that I am missing?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/05/2020 10:28 PM

GQ -- Good Questions. I will be interested to hear the responses.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/06/2020 8:53 AM

1) - the voltages are direct reading from the UPS. I did not put a meter on them

2) loads for both circuits are identical

3) to the best of my knowledge (I didn't wire them in) they are not connected

4) Again, not sure but the circuits were installed by a licensed electrician so they should be to code

5)The high voltages have not repeated themselves. the measurements I took with the meter were always the same(within normal fluctuation)

6)voltage measured from neutral to ground were less that 2, hot measured 117.9 as all other readings

7) the same arrangement has been in use for a few years and this is the first time this has happened.

8) I will have to measure the voltages. Unit is an APC 1200. No readouts on it, but now on the other isolated circuit everything is working.

9) the higher voltages were only read for a short time period, until we changed circuits

Hope this answers your questions with enough information.

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#5
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Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/06/2020 5:32 PM

Yeah, I always hate it when something doesn't stay 'broken'.

I'm going to guess that the circuits feeding the UPS were 'a little on the high side' at the time of the observation.

I believe the APS 1200 is an off-line UPS meaning that the inverter in the unit only operates if you lose input power. Otherwise the unit just 'passes through' the utility input power to the outputs.

An on-line UPS takes the input power and uses that to charge the battery and the battery is always supplying power to the inverter that powers the loads. In that way, the load always receives 'conditioned' power from the UPS.

Hope this helps.

BSR

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/07/2020 4:07 AM

<...voltage measured from neutral to ground were less that 2...> This is a function of the current on the neutral conductor and the earth loop impedance value. One wouldn't expect it to be zero while there is a current. One might be tempted to discard this as a possibility.

It wouldn't be the first time a loose neutral connection upstream on the incoming supply caused a problem like this...

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/07/2020 8:29 AM

I've had loose neutrals before, hence my reference. I have checked and all were fine.

Thanx for the reminder.

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#6

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/06/2020 6:27 PM

You are using an isolated ground. The UPS must be specifically rated for this. Under certain power loss scenarios, the UPS comes on providing voltage, if there was only a partial power failure 1/2 the line voltage can be applied to the UPS voltage.

Military ships have isolated grounds and use UPS' specifically certified for this environment. APC is what we used exclusively

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#9

Re: TRANSIENT VOLTAGES

02/07/2020 11:45 AM

When I was faced with these types of transient power line problems, I would use a scope to capture both the supplied line voltage and the output of the UPS. This could be triggered with a voltage level, but a more powerful trigger is to use a NOTCH filter with 60 Hz center, whose output is fed to the trigger circuit. If ANY strange waveform hits the filter, it will create a voltage surge to trigger the scope. This would include distortion, amplitude + or -, or complete drop out.

This scope information could be used to get the power company to fix the problem, or the UPS supplier to solve it.

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#10

Re: Transient Voltages

02/13/2020 10:05 AM

Thank you all for your suggestions. I have change nothing in the system and the problem has not occurred again.

Indeed transient. Hopefully never to occur again.

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