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Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 3:27 PM

The smaller, 2nd stage cylinder travels about 3 times faster than the larger 1st stage cylinder.

We're trying to have the extend time be about 10 seconds so the speed of the smaller, 2nd stage cylinder isn't so fast.

We have manual diretional valves.

Meter out flow controls.

We're having a difficult time synchronizing both cylinders. The manual flow controls are rotated to control the speed (CFM). time consuming to get them close.

The air lines are the same length.

about 90 PSI.

The problem is if the cylinders aren't synced, the tray will twist and become un-attached.

We've had a couple of different vendors in.

one suggestion was to have a Y fitting instead of a T fitting.

Additionally go to a different flow control that had more adjustment due to finer threads. We haven't tried this yet.

Have any of you built or seen a system in operation like this?

Any suggestions?

Some of the testing is done with no load so we get "close" then we test under load.

Sometimes it complets the cycle, other times it doesn't.

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#1

Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 4:23 PM

Why wouldn't you have matching equalized cylinders? In any case a more detailed drawing of the assembly would be helpful...

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 4:49 PM

The cylinders are the same.

Maybe on Monday when I get back to work I can post a better drawing.

thanks.

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#16
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Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/09/2020 9:36 AM

not a great photo

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#3

Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 4:59 PM

Unless you have some really clever feedback, pneumatic is the wrong way to go. Even hydraulic isn't all that easy to synchronize--just a lot easier than air. A mechanical linkage could help, if feasible.

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#5
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Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 8:46 PM

Pretty much my thoughts. I wanted an electric linear actuator with a servomotor but my boss and the customer thought a telescopic pneumatic cylinder would be better. One lever pull and task complete.

We get close but not sure it's repeatable.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 11:34 PM

Maybe this, similar to cross-compounding dc motors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KTv8K3TVcc

Not intuitive, but I think I've seen something like this before. Also saw this, I've not seen this in practice, but no design parameters, 3 equal volume cylinders, compensation for rod end volume, and stated for hydraulic, as mentioned by Tornado...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmmHCnP__gE

I'd worry about how well it works after 6 months of wear and condensate at customers poorly maintained air compressor dryer...

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#9
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Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/07/2020 12:07 AM

In the first link, the cylinders won't synchronize (mismatched cross-sectional areas).

I think the second link works in theory, but if there is any difference in CSAs, or even a slight leakage, it too will become out of sync.

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#10
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Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/07/2020 12:16 AM

The video does show that too, I never noticed!

And I’d wonder about the transition between stages, if off a little bit, would really jump out of synch fast.

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 11:58 PM

I'm curious to know what their rationale was, if any.

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#4

Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 7:22 PM

A crosshatch assembly confined to tracks might work...

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#6
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Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/06/2020 8:48 PM

Unfortunately at this time I am trying to fit everything in a small space. Currently working on a more rigid linear bearing.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/07/2020 7:46 AM

You could make a swivel attachment for the cylinders on a crossmember that attached to the drawer at the midpoint, which also swiveled...this would reduce stress on the linear bearings...

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#13
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Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/07/2020 12:30 PM

I will post some pictures on monday.

I have several links to look at on Monday.

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#11

Re: Synchronizing Pneuatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/07/2020 12:31 AM

I wonder if you could use a rodless cylinder to take part of the linear bearing function and still get the stroke that now requires telescopic cylinders?

https://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/technologies/cylinders-actuators/article/21887509/less-is-more-considerations-for-choosing-rodless-pneumatic-cylinders

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#14

Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/09/2020 8:14 AM

You need a rigid, guided connection between the two cylinders. The guide needs to be stiff enough to not twist and bind.

By the time you have that designed and integrated into your small space you will have spent the same time and money a servo actuator would have cost.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/09/2020 9:04 AM

Agreed. Now to convince my boss. That meeting is planned for today.

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#18
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Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/10/2020 1:00 PM

You're right. I didn't do a search.

I did review the titles and none of them refer to telescopic cylinders.

There is a spendy way to synchronize 2 pneumatic cylinders, but that method won't work for telescopic cylinders.

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#19

Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/12/2020 5:04 PM

The meter out flow controls were switched to meter in flow controls with more adjustment range. Now we are getting the synchronization needed to make it work.

Next step is getting rigid linear bearings. They are being ordered now.

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#20

Re: Synchronizing Pneumatic Telescopic Cylinders

03/15/2020 10:01 AM
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