Charge in Parallel, Discharge in Series

It seems like it might work, without taking the diodes out of the circuit.

It seems like it might work, without taking the diodes out of the circuit. You're charging batteries rather than capacitors. But the batteries may not get the same charge, as some have more diodes in series and so would get less voltage.

https://www.codrey.com/electronic-circuits/dc-voltage-booster-multiplier/

And no, the edit timeout still doesn't work as advertised.

What if you had two of these circuits, with the second circuit putting the higher voltage where the other put the lower voltage and have them switch back and forth with one on and the other off, in rapid succession...?

Looks like there could be some seriously high voltages to deal with.

Each cycle would produce higher and higher voltages.

With no limits on the feedback,the limits would be the components themselves and the insulation between them.

With proper design,a Tesla coil power supply?

A friend built a nice Tesla coil in his shop.

He used vegetable cooking oil,aluminum foil and freezer bags for a capacitor,and a picnic cooler as the insulated container.

He used a flexible aluminum dryer exhaust vent hose,formed into a circle, as the coil top.

He used a high speed motor to generate the pulses.

When he turned it on,it sounded like a jet engine slowly accelerating as the switching motor built up speed.

It took several minutes to build up voltage,but when it did WOW!!

This would leap sparks of over 6 feet,and they would dance around on the OSB ceiling of his shop.

Watching it in the same room,I felt like I was in a 1950's SCI-FI movie!(Ah..those were the days my friend: Only the Shadow knows, Rocket Man, the Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers).

ALL of my hair stood on end; on my arms,chest,back and even the few I have left on my head ( I didn't lose any of them though;I keep them numbered just in case).

And the ozone smell! AHH!. Just like after a thunderstorm!

I would send a video,but my old flip-phone (yes,I still have a Fred Flintstone era flip phone) will not do video.

If anyone in interested I might could borrow my grandson's camera and get some video.

Go Big or go home...!

OK Lets go REAL BIG.These are 2 FARAD EACH !10-16 volts each.

How about 10 of these in series/parallel?

He needs 150Volts? No problem.

Total weight of 10 of these 29.4 lb.

Around $35 each.

OK, now yer talkin' my language...back this thing up to a supercharger...

https://www.extremekartz.com/navitas-star-ev-48v-600a-5kw-ac-dc-conversion-kit-replaces-1268-non-its/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw_ez2BRCyARIsAJfg-kuCrhJm3eA_VZI-XhES6i8NK8GV0UR13RBIvERf3b0tFjniU9KIBLEaAn-AEALw_wcB

Marx Generator Tesla Coil Primary Circuits

HTRN,

If you really are seeking a Tesla coil driver using parallel charge, series discharge then you are probably really remembering a Marx Generator. They have spark gaps rather than diodes unlike voltage multiplier circuits and they can be driven by a DC high voltage source.

For Tesla Coil drivers, Marx Generators can have one arc gap with a whirling set of conductive balls(drawer pulls, door knobs or the like) to set the frequency of its output. Some designs arrange the Marx components in a circle and the current pulse through the Marx components provide short magnetic pulses. With two Marx Generators near one end of the Tesla coil secondary you can provide an alternating polarity shah function to drive the TC. These two circular MG rings can both use the same rotating set of conductive balls to provide symmetric narrow pulses(delta peaks) of opposite magnetic polarities.

The insulated whirling disk passes the conductive balls through one MG spark gap and as a conductive ball nears the one spark gap the series gaps of one MG all discharge simultaneously with a very short pulse with a width related to the inductance of the MG series spark gap ring. The one or two MG rings comprise the primary windings of the TC. The balls are arranged so that the two MG rings are alternately discharged 180 degrees out of phase with each other and the MG rings are designed for current flows in opposite directions. One way to do this is to use a ball spacing twice the distance between the trigger arc gap of one MG ring and the trigger arc gap of the other MG ring. The space between the electrodes of the two MG rings need to be spaced from each other widely enough that one MG does not interact with the other MG. Generally, the effective trigger arc gaps of each ring are just slightly narrower with a conductive ball in place than the other arc gaps of that MG. Internal combustion engine spark plugs in air are often used as a cheap commodity arc gap for all of the non-trigger arc gaps of both MG's. Set all of the non-trigger arc gaps to the same opening size with a feeler gauge from your local car parts store or buy plugs with precisely preset uniform gaps. Use HVAC tiny copper tubing or larger for the MG series conductor paths and carefully form them into accurate circles of specific diameters to have good control over the pulse widths. Some TC designers use two ICE spark plugs, carefully mounted so that the whirling balls pass precisely through the gap formed by their center electrodes. They remove the "hook" electrode from the side of the spark plug with a grinding implement being careful to smooth any roughness from the remains of the "hook." Often the caps used in a MG circuit are the so-called "doorknob" high voltage caps. The cap conductors are part of the series discharge path and are therefore usually shaped continual paths from the spark gaps with any parallel charging circuits applied to their surface and not impacting their shape. That is the physical shape of a MG ring does not look like its schematic shape despite the fact that the interconnects are logically identical.
_______________

thewildotter

VERY INTERESTING!I learned a lot from your posting.Thanks!

Although I am not currently working on a Tesla Coil,I have a friend who has built several and is always open for suggestions.

He may already be familiar with the info on your link,but it is new to me.

He is a seat-of-the pants engineer,with no formal training,but who managed to rise to the top of a large electronics company,back in the days when vacuum tubes roamed and ruled the Earth,and microscopic electrons hid out in their tunnels under the silicon mountains,and the holes they left behind as they tunneled would be discovered and become useful many years later.

Anyway,I was not seeking a trigger for a Tesla coil,I was seeking a way to equally charge 6 golf cart batteries in parallel,and discharge them in series.

However,it it the things you learn as you seek knowledge that have unintended consequences and pleasant surprises.

Even if I never use the information in the link you provided,it has piqued my curiosity and sent me off on a tangent;Who knows what I may find!

I am still young enough to learn,but old enough to realize I will never know enough to be considered wise.

THANKS!

What if we used a full wave bridge (4 diodes) instead of single diodes to improve efficiency?

I don't have a circuit simulator to try this,but I am sure someone on this forum does.

Thanks is advance for any and all constructive feedback on this subject.

Thanks, I could use this...

GA

What if you had two of these circuits, with the second circuit putting the higher voltage where the other put the lower voltage and have them switch back and forth with one on and the other off, in rapid succession...?

Are we talking about a circuit with capacitors or batteries? With capacitors, the limit would be the breakdown voltage of the capacitors. With batteries, the voltage doesn't get any higher. And, of course, you would have to add the output of the second circuit to the power you are putting into the first circuit.

As the voltage gets higher, the current gets lower, with no increase in power. It's like stringing a bunch of transformers together.

Well I thought the idea was to use capacitors feeding the batteries...you quick charge the capacitors and you're on your way the capacitors feed the batteries to keep them charged up...as opposed to waiting all day for the batteries to charge...then provide extra voltage for those momentary racing applications when fully charged...sort of a dual purpose modification...

HMM! I didn't think of that SE,good idea.

More grist for the mental mill..

OK.Remove the input source after fully charging the batteries.

Presume each battery is 100 AH/6volts

Apply a load of 100 amps, first with diodes,and then without diodes and draw a schematic of the total current flow and voltage with the batteries at 6 volts.

Thanks!

My intended application is golf cart batteries.

The discharge rate could be hundreds of amps,so I think the diodes would need to be switched out when the circuit is under load?

I don't have a source to quote to back this up but I think that the different battery characteristics based upon age, state of charge, etc. will probably cause you too much trouble.

Let's call a stand-alone stack of voltage doubler circuits connected to a stand-alone stack of batteries OPTION A. That seems to be what you started with.

Let's call your described configuration of mixing the batteries and the voltage doubler components together to create a single stack OPTION B.

Since you are already passing your charge through capacitors you could rework the circuit to make an isolated charger for each battery. Each charger would only see one battery so a lot of the problematic effects of unbalanced batteries would go away. A single charger would be in parallel with a single battery. You could stack in series as many of these parallel combinations as you wish. This might be an OPTION C to consider.

The golf cart batteries are pretty expensive. OPTION D would be to buy a charger and reduce the risk of damaging your batteries.

I suggest the proper order for considering this would be option D, then C, then A and lastly B.

Golf cart chargers do not really do a good job of balancing all of the batteries.

They do not have temperature sensing of the batteries,only ambient temperature sensing.

The electrolyte must reach a temperature of 140F to fully charge the battery and to minimize sulfate deposits.

The charging should cease at this temperature,and if the electrolyte indicates a less than full charge,the charger should cycle on again when the temperature drops to a predetermined amount.

Mixing different chemistries and ages of batteries is always a no-go.

My basic question was "Will this circuit work for batteries the same as capacitors?"

My first glance says it should,but I wanted others,more skilled in the craft and more educated in the field to look deeper into the potential problems of this proposed circuit.

If this circuit is viable,I will add other features to monitor ambient temperature, battery temperature,specific gravity, blanket charge time, charge rate,balancing rate and time,etc.and make it programmable for different chemistries.

Thanks for the feedback!

https://golfcartpartsdirect.com/Category/1997ClubCarGasElectric

Boy that's an old one with field weakening resistor.

The newer ones use solid state motor controllers.

The older ones were faster though,but they were power hungry,wasting a lot of energy through that resistor.

https://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/119828/Charging-in-Parallel-Discharging-in-Series

OK you have a charging circuit that feeds each cell, the charging gate is controlled by the feed back from each cell, as the cell calls for voltage the charging line to that cell is energized at a higher voltage than the fully charged level....there is a voltage limiter after each cell that blocks excess voltage from contributing to the series string...

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4134342

Thanks SE!

That sounds like the way to go for as-close-to- perfect as you can get to extending the battery life.

Individual cell voltage checks are a secondary indicator of the cell life.

I hope this system becomes economical and practical for every day consumer use.

Theoretically you could just charge one battery and use the voltage balancers to parallel the charge...

Thanks for the info.I will check out the circuitry of active cell balancer.

I will have to increase the output circuit device for my purposes,but it may serve the purpose very well.

Be careful and don't soar too high,SE.