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Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/01/2020 9:43 PM

Hello all,

On our motor control circuits we are using 110Vac, often (once a month) we have brown outs less than 200ms, the control voltage drops to 80VAC. This is enough to drop out these contactors. I did consider changing the contactors to the latest type which has a coil voltage range between 40Vac to 130Vac but it will need to be a long term solution. Someone mentioned that you can install a capacitor across the coil which will help, Is this correct? What size cap is recommended.

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#1

Re: Voltage drop on motor circuits

09/01/2020 9:54 PM

A capacitor would only help if the contactor coils were DC. I would consider powering the motor controller with a UPS.

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#2

Re: Voltage drop on motor circuits

09/01/2020 10:25 PM

Yeah I use battery backups for these momentary voltage drops...cheap, reliable, surge protection....

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#3

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/02/2020 10:08 AM

The coil of your contactor actually keeps the contacts closed(?) due to the magnitude of the current flowing through the coil and not the voltage applied to the coil. (Ampere and Biot-Savart Law) If you cannot get your power provider to correct this frequent but brief under power problem, the elegant solution would be to add a snubber like network to these coils that maintained this current during these brief brownout conditions.

To design such a network one must know many parameters of the contactor, motors and the overall system. Some of these parameters will probably have to be empirically discovered by testing, like the contactor coil induction, resistance, pull-in and drop-out current along with delay times. In short, this is possible but probably not practical.

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#4

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/02/2020 12:23 PM

A capacitor would help with a DC control circuit. With an AC control circuit, the supply which is falling to 80%, will just pull down any capacitor voltage.

I assume that your starters bypass the start button with an auxiliary "hold-in" contact of the 3 phase power contactor when they close. Once that auxiliary contact opens during a brown-out it "cuts the throat" of the control circuit and you are off.

Maybe a slow-release (>0.2 second) auxiliary relay following the contactor auxiliary would work.

But the necessary wiring/relay seems complicated compared to changing to a low drop-out volt contactor. Is it possible to swap the contactor coil rather than whole contactor?

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#5

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/02/2020 7:22 PM

Thank you, I will replace these contactors with the latest contactors and overloads, expensive but worth it.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/02/2020 10:43 PM

If you just changed the coils to dc, little bridge rectifier goes with it, that might be cheaper. 120 AC starter coil drops out at 63 volts in a few milliseconds, dc coil down to 20% voltage.

This dc conversion is standard design on large high voltage contactors, helps keep the contactor held in during dips, keeps the large motor synchronized during transient events, short enough to be recoverable.

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#7

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/02/2020 11:55 PM

With some experimenting you can find out how much DC current (voltage= IR) required to pick up the coil. Compare that with the AC rms to the coil. Rectify the ac and use a dropping resistor to limit the DC current. With a free wheeling diode or a capacitor you can time the drop out.

If you want a fast pickup apply full voltage rectified through a NO contact shorting a "holding" resistor - as the contactor pulls in it automatically limits the current to the holding level.

If the drop out time is too long, then experiment with additional components to absorb the discharge current.

Be aware that breaking dc current in an un-suppressed inductor gives a bit of a voltage spike.

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#8

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 1:03 AM

Immediate restart function is available in the modern numerical relays available for LV motors from many of the LV MCC manufacturers.

These are cheap and can ensure short duration voltage drops don't affect motor running.

They also have delayed restart function in case of critical duty motors to restart automatically on restoration of supply beyond 200ms.

Alternatively, simple restart relays are also available in the market that can be connected in the motor control circuit to serve the same purpose.

In olden days, we used to employ pneumatic timers (Off-delay) in the circuit to hold the contact in closing circuit for a defined period after power loss so that the subject critical duty motor can automatically restart.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 1:17 AM

I was looking at electronic off-delay timer, for an automatic restart but wasn't sure if we have a dozen 200KW motors starting at the same time produce a high inrush current if the delay was less than 200ms.

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 12:50 PM

200ms is such a short time to change speed of the motor, there shouldn't be any inrush current demand from motors.

Shell (O&G major) standards make an explicit recommendation about that. Motor reacceleration study and staggered starting is stipulated only if the power dip duration exceeds 200ms.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 1:05 PM

It is possible for the motors to slow down enough in a fifth of a second (12 cycles of 60 HZ) to cause a large surge on restart but that would be one hell of a big deceleration. Nonetheless, without knowing anything about the inertial and drag loads (bad bearing?) on this total of 2.4 megawatts of motors I won't say it cannot happen.

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#10

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 2:43 AM

Why not provide the 110V AC for the contactor coils from a constant voltage transformer which will hold the voltage sufficiently for short duration brownouts.

But with a brownout what will that do to the motors trying to drive load with such reduced voltage, increase the current of course and cause more motor problems.

We used constant voltage transformer for a supply in a dragline to overcome transient voltage drops to keep the fan motors running without the contactors dropping out and needing a restart for the inertia of the fans kept the speed from drooping too much.

It all depends on what the motors are driving as to other problems that may be encountered.

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#11

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 7:51 AM

One might reasonably expect <...brown outs...> on the motor power cables of the order of <...200ms...> simultaneously as well, and these must be considered in the context of whatever the motors are driving to determine the potential impact on the process.

There is nothing to stop a several-pronged approach and commercial threats to the utility supply organisation need to be considered in addition to the technical ones within the operation.

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#14

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 6:59 PM

There are devices that you can put on critical coil circuits, generically called PORT devices (Power Loss Ride Through).

Here's an example:

http://pqsi.com/

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#15

Re: Voltage Drop on Motor Circuits

09/03/2020 8:40 PM

I would suggest a UPS to power your control panel. Use the On-Line type so you don't have any interruption. Some UPS systems switch ON when they see a power loss so you still have a momentary interruption in power. The On-Line type will seamlessly provides power. They are also referred to as a double-conversion UPS.

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