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Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/10/2020 1:17 AM

Dear friends,

I request your kind attention for a question. There is 2 types ATS are available in market. ACB/contactor assembled type and factory built asco/zenith etc.

The major difference between this 2 are, asco type having overlapping netral and make before break provision also for phases as optional.

if there is normal power failure, the load side will be dead so when the generator supply switched to the load there is any back feed i think.

Once the normal power is restored, both sources will be available in the ATS incoming side. So during transfer from generator source to normal source, there will be break of phase and neutral for milliseconds (60milliseconds in case of ACB).

I think this may be the reason why asco with neutral make before break is recommended. My question is,

* with the neutral isolation of 60milliseconds can make damage to the system? if so how?

* It is mentioned in the asco catalogue, neutral overlapping to protect UPS, computer etc. how it happens this is my main concern.

* I think If we provide 3pole ACB instead of 4pole in the normal source, this can be solved, the price difference between asco and acb type are 200% thats y looking for acb type assembled one.

I checked with many, but couldn't get a proper explanation, Request your support, thank you.

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Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2011
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#1

Re: Why ATS (auto transfer switch) required overlapping neutral (make before break)

09/10/2020 1:43 AM

Please find the sketch, propose to solid connection for the neutral of transformer source.

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#2

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/10/2020 10:11 AM

You would use "make-before-break" only if you are transferring the load between two powered busses that are synchronized if your load cannot suffer a momentary loss of power.

"A closed transition transfer switch (CTTS) is also called a make-before-break transfer switch.

A typical emergency system uses open transition, so there is an inherent momentary interruption of power to the load when it is transferred from one available source to another (keeping in mind that the transfer may be occurring for reasons other than a total loss of power). In most cases this outage is inconsequential, particularly if it is less than 1/6 of a second.

There are some loads, however, that are affected by even the slightest loss of power. There are also operational conditions where it may be desirable to transfer loads with zero interruption of power when conditions permit. For these applications, closed transition transfer switches can be provided. The switch will operate in a make-before-break mode provided both sources are acceptable and synchronized. Typical parameters determining synchronization are: voltage difference less than 5%, frequency difference less than 0.2 Hz, and maximum phase angle between the sources of 5 degrees. This means the engine driving the generator supplying one of the sources generally must be controlled by an isochronous governor."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_switch

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/10/2020 1:00 PM

Fire alarm systems are particularly sensitive to any variation in voltage,and a brief interruption may result in a zone setting an alarm condition.This usually requires a manual reset.

"The sweet taste of a low price is forgotten when the bitter taste of regret is in your mouth."..unknown

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/11/2020 8:50 AM

"There is always someone in the world who can make something a little worse, and sell it a little cheaper, and those who consider price only are this person's lawful prey." - John Ruskin.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 1:53 AM

sure, but now the world is changed, the winner is those who put something not required in the specification to sell his product. which is enough to scare the client who trust the specification as bible.

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 1:43 AM

Fire alarm system usually provided with battery back to avoid any mal operation during momentary power outage or fluctuation.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 1:41 AM

thank you,

Most of the local electricity boards not allow the parallel operation, how ever they insist the momentary parallel operation of neutral only. This is my question why need make before break only for neutral. floating neutral for a 60millisecond can damage an equipment?

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#8
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Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 2:56 AM

If the neutral is broken on one of the derived single phase circuits, the voltages can surge or dip,depending on the devices using the neutral as a return for unbalanced loads.

The single phase circuits now become in series with each other instead of parallel,resulting in constant current and variable voltage through each device.

I have seen devices destroyed by a broken neutral,such as computers,monitors,and automated machinery power supplies.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 9:02 AM

of course its true sir, definitely it will happen if the system loss neutral during normal operating condition. But my question is regarding the load transfer from generator to normal source. ie, if the normal power is restored, the generator acb will be tripped (load will loose power supply for a moment) immediately will be connected to normal supply. So the neutral may loose earth connection for a maximum 100milli seconds. means there will be resdual voltage or back feed from the load for this duration? if so i think if we give a time delay of 2seconds for re-transfer the load side may become dead. So that there will be no surge.

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#10
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Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 9:29 AM

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 9:30 AM

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#12
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Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/12/2020 9:32 AM

If the circuit is disconnected from a supply for however long and for whatever reason, then no voltage is present in it, by definition.

A neutral is only a power-carrying conductor that is held close to earth potential.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/13/2020 9:58 AM

Any inductive load will generate a Counter- EMF when the power is interrupted,even briefly.The faster the interrupt,the greater the Counter-EMF;If the neutral is open,the EMF can be up to double the normal voltage level,when the neutral is used to carry the unbalanced load on single phase circuit.This is enough to destroy some solid state devices.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/15/2020 3:13 AM

Thank you for the right answer.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/15/2020 7:18 AM

So this was a test, eh?

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#16
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Re: Why ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) Required Overlapping Neutral (Make Before Break)

09/15/2020 7:36 AM

sorry, thanks for the right guidance.

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