Electrical Design Residential Building-Canada

I guess it depends on what part of Canada it is...here is a link to the building codes, look it up....

https://nrc.canada.ca/en/stories/construction-innovation/free-electronic-access-codes

Back in the 70's, in Southern Ontario, my brother won the electrical contract for three 12 floor apartment buildings, each with about 10 living units per floor. Each building had a transformer vault from which 120/208 V. was fed to a 2000 amp main fused switch. From the main switch, a bus duct ran up the centre of each building (bus duct is by no means a code requirement - it is one of many approved wiring methods). On each floor, inside a locked electrical closet, a fused (don't recall the fuse size) switch was bolted to the vertical bus bars and fed an adjacent distribution panel housing a bank of 70 amp breakers. Each 70 A. breaker in that panel fed conductors which ran through a conduit to one breaker panel in one apartment on that floor. This apartment breaker panel (accessible by the tenant) protected the branch circuits in that living unit - lights, fridge, stove, etc.

There was only one meter per building, so obviously the owner planned to charge tenants a flat rate for electricity use. Individual apartments can also be metered. The "Demand Factor" section of the Canadian Electrical Code, provides rules for calculation of amperage capacity of the main service, and for amperage capacity of the individual apartment panels (In the example given, the amperage figures would have been specific to the demand factor calculations for those particular buildings). It is wise to have the local electrical inspection department review and approve your plans before beginning, and also to submit your metering plans for approval to the local supply authority.

Thank you Boss

The mentioned main fused switch was interesting. It was enclosed in a large floor mounted cabinet. On the front was a crank like that on a old Model T. To operate, you turned the crank, which wound or compressed a powerful internal spring until a coloured "ready" flag appeared in a window. Then you hit a raised pad with the palm of your hand, which would trip the spring, and with a loud bang the blades of the knife switch would slam together. I don't recall, but the disconnect procedure must have been the same.

A1) it depends upon the local supply, on which topic the post is silent.

A2) It depends upon the design of the <...each apartments...>, on which topic the post is silent.

A3) It depends upon the design of the living arrangements in <...each apartments...>, on which topic the post is silent.

A4) It depends upon the design of the <...each apartments...>, on which topic the post is silent.

The forum cannot answer these questions. If in doubt, consult a local Electrical Engineer.

Are you licensed to perform this level of work in Canada?

If not,forget about doing it.

It is illegal to do it,and could result in heavy penalties.

It seems obvious to me that you are not licensed or qualified or you would not ask such questions.

You will be putting many lives at risk if allowed to perform this work.

A General Prime Contractor will not allow an unlicensed trade craftsman to do any work on the job,unless working under the supervision and direction of a licensed contractor.

Refer the potential customer to a qualified licensed electrical contractor.

I am a retired Chief Electrical Inspector of a Canadian jurisdiction.

In Canada, buildings are built to one, of two, sections of the National Building Code of Canada. What you describe would be built under Part 3 of the Building Code. NO Canadian jurisdiction would permit an electrical system such as you describe be deployed in a Part 3 rated building without it having been designed by a registered professional electrical engineer. You cannot learn to do this on the Internet. If you are at all serious, contact a reputable electrical engineering firm.

In defence of the O.P.'s questions: Everyone knows that you cannot learn to design a large apartment building electrical system from the internet, and everyone also knows that for a commercial project of this scope you cannot put a shovel in the ground without first obtaining all of the requisite approvals and permits, so where is the fault in asking some general questions on the subject? There is no need for all of the high-horse posturing about putting lives at risk and so on. Maybe the O.P. is writing a novel and for some aspect of the story needs information about Canadian apartment building electrical systems. You also can't learn to perform open-heart surgery from the internet, but surely one should be able to ask general questions about the procedure without a lot of silly chastising about the need for proper medical training and certification, and the risk to others if you try to do it without that training, and so on and so forth. Everyone knows that too.

You make a lot of assumptions. Over the years I have interacted with an alarming number of people who have exhibited a complete lack of understanding about some of the things you talk about.

As to the OP maybe writing a novel or if there was some other reason he was asking for this information, then he should have clearly articulated that other reason. No professional engineering person, I beleive, would (or IMHO should) share this type of knowledge with anyone who was really contemplating such a build.

From my many years as an electrical safety regulator, I can tell you horor stories about the things people "think" they can do or get away with.

My hat is off to you.

You perform a valuable service to society by keeping the riff-raf, unqualified and short-cut takers from putting others in danger.

If your profession is similar to the States,you must take annual code courses and Continuing Education Units to maintain your license status.

Likewise with any licensed electrician in the States.

The NEC ,like any other code,leaves room for interpretation,and it is up to the local inspector to provide insight when certain things are misunderstood.

I have debated certain interpretations with inspectors over the years,and have added to my knowledge,but ultimately,the local inspector calls the shots.

Re: "No professional engineering person, I believe, would (or IMHO should) share this type of knowledge with anyone who is contemplating such a build."

There are books on the subject of building electrical system design that anyone can read. I have in my possession a book titled, "Constructing Electrical Systems". The information it contains is directly related to the O.P.'s questions. I purchased it without any Masonic secret handshake or whispered password. The O.P. could do the same.

Your presumption of the OP's intent stretches logic to the extreme,unless of course,you wish to become the devil's advocate,which seems to be the case in a lot of your replies,IMHO.

To a reasonably minded individual,he was contemplating doing the job himself,and implied he had done such work elsewhere,but was not familiar with Canadian specifications.

In reply to #9 and #10:

To think that there is a real possibility that a sub-code electrical system designed by the O.P. could be installed in a 10 story apartment building in Canada, thereby putting lives at risk... That somehow the plans for a sub-code electrical system for a large commercial building would be approved; that a permit for the sub-code system would be issued; that a licensed electrical contractor would agree to co-ordinate installation of the sub-code system; that the crew of licensed electricians would, without protest, perform the sub-code work; that the electrical inspector would pass the sub-code work; that even if the electrical inspector didn't pass the sub-code work and didn't issue a connection notice to the supply authority, the supply authority would connect the building electrical system to the grid anyway... Every person at every step in this imaginary scenario would be breaking the law, jeopardising their employment, and making themselves liable for any harm to persons or damage to property that might result.

Or, in lieu of the above described scenario, in which a total lack of integrity prevails from one end of the process to the other, there seems to be a suggestion by posters here that the O.P. would be able to put together a rogue crew, and somehow, under the radar of authorities at every level, install a sub-code electrical system in a large apartment building in Canada, and then surreptitiously connect it to the supply grid, thereby putting lives at risk.

All of this is too nonsensical to contemplate. Neither scenario has any possibility of happening, is not going to happen, and everyone here knows it.

I presume the OP is very ignorant of all the rules and regs,and I am presuming nothing else,and if everyone knows what you presume they know,why repeat it here? It is redundant.

The answers to the original question were to inform the OP of the depth of his ignorance of electrical regulations and rules in Canada.

Perhaps he is from a third world country with no rules,and has performed electrical work before.

He said "I have less knowledge about the system in Canada.",which implied some knowledge from elsewhere.

Here is an example of untrained techs trying to connect power:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5iFLv9mhUY

The O.P. as you point out, states that he has "less knowledge about the system in Canada." Given that, here are two legitimate reasons the O.P. could be asking about such systems:

1) The O.P. is planning to build a 10 floor apartment building in Canada and naturally wants the electrical system of the building to be compliant with Canadian law. To this end he/she intends to hire a Canadian electrical engineer to design the electrical system but the O.P. lacks the knowledge to be able to intelligently assess any proposed design or to suggest/discuss various alternative methods. This is analogous to dealing with your car mechanic. You are in a better position if you know something about cars.

2) The O.P. has some knowledge of building electrical system design (as deduced from the quote), and is confident that with answers to some generalities he/she could design the electrical system for the referenced building and then take those plans to a Canadian electrical engineer for review and approval - at considerable savings in cost. This is what I did years ago when I designed and built a timber frame home. I consulted technical books on timber frame design, drew up plans, and then took those plans to a structural engineer with experience in timber frame buildings. All of my calculations and timber sizing/spacing were correct, and the engineer's stamp on my drawings assured building officials of that fact. It is reasonable to suppose that the O.P. is doing with electrical design what I did with timber frame design.

Thats correct.