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Anonymous Poster

New Invention For Planet Earth

11/12/2007 12:43 PM

would the us government be willing to invest money on new equipment dedicated to collecting industrial waste to carry out to space? If we are wasting money on the space conquest' why not invest on something useful?

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#1

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/12/2007 1:00 PM

Four main problems/questions with the scheme.

  1. The cost of shipping materials into space is extremely prohibitive. I remember reading somewhere (I don't have a link), that NASA's costs for shipping 1 lb of material into space is something like $15,000. The space shuttle has a carrying capacity of approximately 50,000 lbs. To remove just that much waste would cost $750 million.
  2. Scale - There aren't that many launch vehicles available so the process doesn't scale very well. There are just three space shuttles, and they tend to average about 1 launch each per year. Soyuz spacecraft have very little carrying capacity. General rockets are out of the question because there has to be an unloading option.
  3. The failure rate on space launches is still pretty high. Depending on the type of waste in question, explosion even in the upper atmosphere would lead to catastrophic scattering.
  4. Once you have the waste in space, what do you do with it? Can't put it in orbit, as orbits decay over time. Can't send it to another planet as we'll have to deal with it there eventually. Can't send it into the sun (as is popular in fiction) - it's simply too far for it to travel. Remember that $15,000 per pound is just to get the material into Earth orbit. If you add that kind of distance plus having to replace the vehicle each time, the costs would simply be astronomical.

Better to solve those problems here on Earth (IMHO).

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#2

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/12/2007 2:22 PM

I must be missing something here Guest. Are you suggesting we collect our **** and ship it into space ?

Despite the presence of our Lead Editor here, I'm going to say this sounds like utter idiocy. Please correct me if I misunderstand your point. Wouldn't scooping up stuff and bringing it back be better ? If the day ever come when we want to send people on deep space missions ( ie Mars etc fairly soon), wouldn't it be better to clear some of the **** out of the way ? There is a mass of junk swirling around the planet - one day it will be in the way.

ET will not thank us if one day he gets a load of radioactive garbage we sent star-ward. Perhaps we should practice more on our own junk disposal. Putting our own trash somewhere else does not make it disappear.

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#14
In reply to #2

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 8:51 PM

Hi Kris,

Chris is absolutely correct. Instead of shipping it off the earth, why not come up with better recycling for waste products, even including **** as you say.

We created it so we should deal with it.

-John

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#3

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/12/2007 11:28 PM

Tis matter was addressed by the sainted Robert Heinlein around 1976. His arguements were

(a) Costs too damn much

(b) The cure is worse than the disease

(c) We may want it in the future. Remember, gasoline was once burned off as an "unusable" byproduct of the manufacture of lamp oil

It still chaps my ass to see the flare stacks wasting BTUs to the atmosphere. From almost 5 miles they emit enough light that I can read in my back yard. Can you say "co-gen? I knew you could.

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#4

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 4:10 AM

NASA is currently monitoring over 105 pieces of junk floating about in near-earth orbit, much of which will end up back here via a vaporising process in the upper atmosphere first. There's also a few tens of tonnes on the surface of the Moon and a few more tens of tons of pollutants in the extremely tenuous atmosphere of that body. Heavenly? Really?

So where is this industrial waste supposed to be headed, then? And what is to be done with all the combustion products and emitted heat produced as a consequence of getting it there?

'Throw it away'? There is no 'away'. Get used to it.

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#5

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 7:20 AM

Another "goony" idea......!

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#6

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 7:57 AM

How about putting our collective effort at 100% to Reduce, Reuse, Recycle?

I don't know how much money the gov's would need to add an an incentive or educating and policing.

Sounds like what we should do as citizens?

How about corporate citizens? Aren't we outsourcing our pollution?

Dumpy dumpy is for goners.

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#7

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 8:48 AM

If most of us just refilled our plastic drinking water bottle instead of throwing it away you would save far more than 750 million and a few hundred tons of landfill food. Also consider the amount of resources needed to process the bottles. If the "Fed" wanted to lower emissions and conserve resources, they should give everyone wine skins and stop this whole plastic bottle thing.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 9:10 AM

Excellent point made !

People buy bottled water when it comes out of a tap ? What kind of stupid do you have to be in order to pay ££s per litre because some ponsy sommelier tells you it bubbled through volcanic rock. It's ******g water, and for most of us lucky folk it comes through a tap. Why buy the ***** stuff in plastic bottles ? It should be compulsory to eat the bottle as well.************.What a ********* waste.

<Sorry folks, Kris in a rage.>

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 10:30 AM

Bravo!! I believe each person on earth should be issued one (1) plastic drinking bottle and when that is used up (broken, etc) they should take it to a recycling center and be issued a replacement. The same with plastic bags.


Although I came from the plastics industry initially, I believe plastics should be used for specific applications where they alone are best suited, not for bottle and bag making. Of course, if the price of petroleum keeps going up maybe the cost of producing these items will price them out of the market.

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 12:04 PM

But if we refilled our drinking bottles daily, we wouldn't be getting the "100% pure glacial mountain stream water" that is guaranteed to be in all those bottles we buy at the corner store!

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 12:42 PM

The best Plastic Drinking Bottles are had by keeping one that held carbonated beverage, because it is built MUCH stronger that a "water bottle". I have one that I have been using for about 6 years now, with no signs of wearing out.

Some Syrup bottles are good too, because they have a nice "Flip-top Cap". I have one that I use for coffee, and the hinge on the cap lasted about 4 years!

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#9

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 9:13 AM

Yes, take it to space that way we can say we Sh__ everywhere. Actually it points out the problem of disposal cost. Recycling and energy conversion is the answer and the cost should go to original purchase taxes based on disposal cost/profit. sometimes the handling and disposal has an ultimate profit to it which should be encouraged. My father heats his house with waste paper that has been rolled up along with whatever wood waste he can find. He uses a high tech non-polluting (comparatively furnace and a hot water radiator system. This works pretty well. If he can do this so can the metro areas. Recycle and its sub uses should be mandatory even if it may not be market driven.

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#13

Re: New Invention For Planet Earth

11/13/2007 4:17 PM

"If we are wasting money on the space conquest' why not invest on something useful"

Hello Guest ,

Wasting money for space exploration is debatable , you call it need ,desire .with limited resources and growing demands for more specially "energy" we have to look beyond earth for our future to sustain , may be some day these hazardeous manufacturing will be taking place in space or moon , leaving our planet clean and happy , doen`t some breakthrough in space help and answer some question that relate to earth and its ecology , okay that is a different topic altogether and i too agree with you to keep our home clean first and than think about investing elsewhere economically when tax payers hard earned money is at stake , it is very expensive to carry waste to space and dump there , it will be wiser to convert the hazerdeous waste to bio degradable with processing and let earth consume it bio chemically naturally

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