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Electric Stove

02/01/2021 10:14 AM

A friend has a 220 VAC 60 Hz 4 burner electric stove. There is a small A/C voltage to ground on 1 burner. I have yet to measure it, or to remove the element and check the connection(s). I only determined it was A/C.

Any ideas as to what to look for? I never thought about it before, but I'm surprised I never felt one on any of mine. Is there a coating on the element, or is there insulation inside the coils that has deteriorated?

Thanx

Jim

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#1

Re: Electric Stove

02/01/2021 10:50 AM

<...Any ideas as to what to look for?...>

Maybe, after the full meaning of the expression <...a small A/C voltage to ground on 1 burner...> has become clear. There just isn't enough in the post to do that.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Electric Stove

02/01/2021 11:07 AM

Wellll tain't 'nuff tuh kill ya when in bare feet on ceramic tile over concrete. We not b tuchin the hot element, but the handle of a cast iron skillet. After cogitatin a mite, and looking at a similar element. It appears the element is hollow and the wire is insulated. So off to the hardware store for 4 new ones.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Electric Stove

02/01/2021 11:32 AM

Sorted. Great.

<unsubscribes>

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#4

Re: Electric Stove

02/01/2021 11:34 AM

I've seen this caused by grease build-up causing a partial short....The stove is not properly grounded to begin with...

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#14
In reply to #4

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 12:32 PM

..."An element can also become partially shorted to ground. While this may not be enough to create a dead short and cause the element to fail outright, it can create a shock hazard. To test an element for a short to ground, an ohmmeter should be set on its highest ohm scale (1K or 10K) and tested from one of the element's terminals to the element's metal sheath. It may be necessary to rub the outer element surface with the meter probe to make a good contact. If anything other than infinite resistance is shown, replace the element."...

http://www.the-appliance-clinic.com/electric_range_surface_element_open.html

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#5

Re: Electric Stove

02/01/2021 11:36 AM

I would guess that some spilled food has splashed from a connection to whatever you are touching on this burner. I also want to know why that metallic surface is not properly bonded.

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#6

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 12:18 AM

I suspect the insulation within the element has broken down or been compromised. It may not be directly measured with a multimeter, but a megga or pat tester may give you the definitive answer. As others have alluded check for food contamination across/on the contacts. Most essentially, Isolate the oven electrically before farnarckling with it.

Don't ask me how I know..

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#7

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 2:15 AM

Is the stove a 3 wire or 4 wire connection?

Before the 4 wire cords became mandatory on new stoves it was allowed to connect small A/C loads,(such as the clock) to the neutral,and the metal frame of the stove was bonded to the neutral with a strap.

If a newer 4 wire stove has been retrofitted to a 3 prong outlet,the bonding strap must be removed to prevent stray currents.

Check if the leakage occurs with the burners turned off.Then by process of elimination determine which burner is leaky.

If the leakage is there when the burners are off,check the bonding strap on the stove.

Not enough info provided to provide further help.

Here is an image:

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#8

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 2:37 AM

If in doubt, consult a qualified local Electrician.

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#9

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 5:16 AM

Thank you all. It is only one burner, so I doubt it is the stove. I'm certain it is 3 wire as I have yet to see a 4 wire appliance down here. The food issue is a possibility, that could be why the metal pan is not grounding the stray current to the stove frame, either that or the enamel paint is intact and preventing it from grounding. I will megger and check it the next time I get over there. AAR I told her to buy a new element.

As for qualified licensed electricians..........another friend lost his roof during Maria. The electrician the contractor hired used all green wire to rewire the affected areas. The owner complained to FEMA during sign-off. Every one got paid and it is still all green wire. In addition many stateside electrical contractors were hired to rebuild the destroyed grid. One unit from Detroit restored my power in mid March. I invited them for dinner and asked what they thought of the grid. I was told they had seen things that they didn't know were possible.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 8:58 AM

Any color wire is permissible by code IF it is identified by a Black or other colored tape at every junction box or exposure.

Tape color overrides wire color.

Supplies may have been scarce after the hurricane,and the contractor may have been forced to use what he had to get service restored.

The inspectors were probably aware of the supply issues.

Even so,it was not a code violation,simply not a professional looking job,done under duress.

A properly trained and licensed electrical contractor would only do this in an emergency situation.

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#10

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 8:33 AM

That burner coil has probably developed a high leakage current probably caused by fluid spillage that eventually caused some microscopic holes to developed on the heater coil surface..

Coil replacement may possibly be the next move.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 10:00 AM

A qualified local Electrician may well invoke the prevention of the <...high leakage current...>'s recurrence by upgrading the installation in line with current local regulations.

Highly recommended as, because of the generation of electric shocks by <...tuchin the...handle of a cast iron skillet...>, it is evidently sub-standard right now.

It is not possible to be a <...friend...> to someone who has died through electrocution; a true <...friend...> would do everything to prevent that from happening.

Yellow Pages?

TustATrader dot com?

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 10:20 AM

GA from Me. I see this all the time with coil-top elements. There is a crack in the insulation inside the coil and it is leaking current to the outer skin of the coil to ground. Just replace the coil.

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#15

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 4:07 PM

sounds to me like the element is bad, replace it. if the element is isolated from the metal on the stove, bonding the stove doesn't come into play unless the skillet touches the stove.

This is not all that uncommon. but if you don't know what your doing, i would get someone who does.

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#16

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 4:32 PM

More likely the ground connection to the element has become high resistance particularly if the element is a plug in type as the connection can become loose with the heat/cool cycle.

The elements usually magnesium oxide for the insulation, which is hygroscopic and if the rubber seals become fractured moisture can enter the element insulation especially if the element is unused for a while. As the element heats up the moisture is driven out lowering the insulation resistance.

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#17

Re: Electric Stove

02/02/2021 7:17 PM

You have to look at how the burner coil is constructed. In the center, there is a Nichrome high resistance wire surrounded by a ceramic insulator, surrounded by metal tubing to protect the insulator.

My guess is that either mechanical shock (e.g. heavy object dropped on burner) or thermal shock (cold liquid or object on hot coil) cracked the insulator inside.

Just replace it.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-electric-stove-elements-work

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#18

Re: Electric Stove

02/03/2021 3:19 AM

I've had something similar in a glue gun. Usually what is going on is that the ceramic insulator in the heating element degrades and becomes slightly conductive over time. It shows up as a ground leakage current and definitely as low resistance from heating element to ground in a megger resistance test, particularly when the element is hot. The solution is to replace the burner. I first ran across this in Calrod bolt heaters. In the glue gun we had four heater elements drop from open circuit to ground down to about 125 ohms. The ground lug would spark when plugged in to a non-gfi outlet and immediately tripped a gfi outlet.

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#19

Re: Electric Stove

02/04/2021 3:13 AM

Update and resolution. I removed the element and discovered one of the spot welds holding the element to the frame had parted. Someone had used a piece of "bailing wire" to re-attach it. This wire had eventually wrapped itself around one of the terminals.

I am not going to comment further......thank you all for your thoughts, prayers, and advice. Fortunately no one was injured.

One further question, I am unable to figure out how to update tiny mice or whatever it is called. I have Win 7 Pro.

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