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Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 7:13 AM

N. Tesla was working on providing free electricity to the world,and when he died,strangely enough,all of his towers were scrapped,and some of his notes disappeared,and some were taken by the FBI and classified secret.

Exactly what he was working on still remains a mystery.I wonder if he was attempting to develop a process for harvesting energy from the ionosphere?

Is it possible to do this today with modern technology and materials?

Perhaps an orbiting "harvester(s)" that converts the energy to microwaves and beams it back to Earth receiving station.

The ionosphere is a nearly infinite supply of clean power if we can find a way to utilize it.

The once sci-fi concept of space elevators is now a technically,if not lucrative,venture.

NASA did an experiment using a tether to generate electricity on the shuttle,and it produced more power than they anticipated and broke.It drifted off looking like a large slinky.

The side effect was a slowing of the craft while extracting power from the tether,and in increase when pumping energy into it.

Using this principle,imagine a very large solar cell array,with tethers.Energy could be transmitted and the orbit would decay,but the orbit could be restored by pumping energy from the array back into the tether.

The orbit height would oscillate as it went thru the cycles.

This is just a rough idea of the basic principle,and lots of details would need to be developed further.

All constructive comments are always welcome.

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#1

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 7:21 AM

With Tesla experiments, if developed further I have wondered how the energy would be standardized for not only the usage, but on a aspect of safety.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 7:55 AM

I am sure there are many challenges that would need to be be addressed over time,like with any new technology.

Henry Ford did not produce the 2021 Mustang as his first car,nor did the Wright brothers build a stealth aircraft,nor could they even imagine such a machine.

(The first Delta-wing plane with a low radar signature ( Convair XF-92A) was developed by 2 German brothers,and first flew in 1948,but with only minor modern changes, is still used today; jet engines,electronics,and improved radar absorbing materials). They used charcoal for absorbing radar

If it can be shown to be lucrative,private industry will exploit it.

The greatest invention was not the generation of electricity,but the meter to measure it and generate profit.

I think Tesla's ideas were squelched because he dreamed of free electricity for the entire world.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 10:27 AM

Yes,… and that was the failure in a capitalist society… or any society, it may be sold as ‘free’… but any realist knows, nothing is free.

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#11
In reply to #2

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 3:05 PM

You mean like in solar energy....haha yeah ....All energy is free....water is free, food is free, land is free, but we have to pay for it all anyway...

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#13
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 5:04 PM

You missed that solar ‘its great for the environment…’

do I need to roll the tape for solar greenness…

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#3

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 9:59 AM

Tesla had a brilliant mind and a great many ideas, some practical and some not. He was far ahead of his time.

There is energy stored in the earth-ionosphere capacitor, but I suspect it is far too diffuse to capture. The capacitance between the earth and ionosphere is about 65000 microfarads and the voltage potential difference is about 350Kv. The energy stored in this capacitor is

U = 1/2 C V2

I get about 8 GJ total, spread over the entire earth.

http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/spring13/atmo589/ATMO489_online/lecture_1/lect1_global_elec_circuit.html

https://pressbooks.online.ucf.edu/osuniversityphysics2/chapter/molecular-model-of-a-dielectric/

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 10:25 AM

Interesting info…

back to Tesla,… With the doers like Tesla… there will be drawbacks…

I like Edison response about failure…

When a reporter asked Edison, "How did it feel to fail 1,000 times?" Edison replied, "I didn't fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps." "Great success is built on failure, frustration, even catastrophy."

Which holds to be true,… there are doers and there are fence sitters.

how many here was told not to do something because it’s a waste of time by someone who sits on a sideline that had no accomplishments with the exception of running their mouth off.

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#14
In reply to #4

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 7:53 PM

Telsla initially had great admiration for Edison, but it didn't last. Edison's statement that the light bulb was an invention with 1000 steps, did not impress Tesla. He described Edison's invention process with amusement: "If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. I was the sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety percent of his labour." (Edison, by M. Josephson, 87-88)

Tesla parted ways with Edison after he had completed an overhaul of the dynamos at the Edison plant. He was on a salary, but before he began the huge undertaking, Edison verbally promised Tesla $50,000 if he succeeded in increasing the plant's efficiency as he claimed he could. When Tesla had done what he said he would do and asked to be paid, Edison seemed astonished. He explained that the offer had been in jest, saying, "When you become a full-fledged American you will appreciate an American joke." (Tesla, Cheney & Uth, pg. 20)

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#25
In reply to #14

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 10:38 AM

Tesla was different,… he could visualize his invention in his head… for lack of a better explanation, Tesla experiments were ‘thought experiments’.

He could do that because he had an understanding very few people can grasp.

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 11:15 AM

Correction, energy should be about 4GJ.

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#29
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 4:53 PM

4GJ ≈ 1111 kWh. Depending on where one lives, this is about US$150 worth of electricity. Let's just say that this project simply doesn't pencil out.

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 11:29 AM

If you begin drawing energy from a capacitor at a single point,the entire capacitor changes value,so a single point could withdraw a lot of energy.

The effect on the Earth's shielding is unknown,but it would have some effect. I am sure.

When I was a kid,edison was my hero.But later,when I learned how he had cheated Tesla,he fell from his pedestal in my eyes.IMHO: If he cheated Tesla,he probably cheated many others.george westinghouse also told Tesla he would go broke if he had to pay him royalties of $.01 per hp on all of the motors he produced,because of the depression,and talked Tesla into tearing up the contract.

marconi stole notes from Tesla to make the first transatlantic radio transmission,and marconi's patent was later revoked and given to Tesla;Posthumously.Lot of good that did.

Tesla's funds were cut off after marconi made that transmission and his work on the towers stopped.

Who knows what he would have developed if not for the thieving marconi?

What would the world's energy supply look like today?

Thanks,marconi!

Big fish have always eaten the little fish,and always will,but my heroes have always been the little fish,the unsung heroes that make the things that make life easier for everyone.

I am sure there are many companies that are benefiting from ideas and devices that were made by an unacknowledged and unrewarded contributor.

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#8
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 12:45 PM

The way Tesla operated, he wasn’t a businessman, even if he would have ‘beaten’ Marconi… Tesla would have blew it.

Look at Tesla and Westinghouse. Tesla waived his Westinghouse royalty fees for every horse power motor.

it was just out of scheer pressure that Westinghouse gave Tesla a small pension in Tesla’s later years.

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#10
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 1:47 PM

WOW! What a generous man!

I don't buy westinghouse or GE products.

It does not hurt them one bit,but I cannot justify rewarding thieves for their crimes.

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#22
In reply to #10

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 10:04 AM

The problem is that if there is money to be had, someone will want to make it theirs and thievery is a quick way as long as society continues to tolerates it!

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 1:04 PM

They say that Tesla didn't perform any experiments. He just knew what would work by thinking about it. None of that 99% perspiration stuff...

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#12
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 5:02 PM

I understand that Tesla did the experiments in his head,… similar to Einstein.

Thought experiments?…

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#30
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 5:46 PM

I have a couple of questions I like to put out here,… Let say if one could tap into the ‘capacitor’ load of 4 Gj,

1.) Does this act like a true capacitor as a whole (earth) or regional

2.) as a capacitor, if it is a capacitor, how is it replenished,… or the correct term is reenergize.

3.) and if so, how long would it take?

4.) and by doing so, (discharging this ‘capacitor’) what effects would that have on the over-all or immediate environment?

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/09/2021 6:30 AM

https://www.onlineconversion.com/index.htmThe capacitor is recharged by the ion flow from the sun which is ever-present with varying intensity.It is strongest at the poles which is where the Auroras are seen.

That would be the most logical place to locate such a collector,or emitter for communication.

I believe Tesla would have been exploring this idea with his towers.

He had to have a geographic location with very thick granite bedrock for his towers to operate properly.

Our government has been operating the HARP array for years,injecting power into the ionosphere at various frequencies to create VLF communications for their submarines;at least that is all that is being revealed publicly.

There is even a possibility for weather control at some point in time.

Are tornadoes guided by the Earth's magnetic field and the resultant ionosphere?

Would large groups of parallel steel beams bend the local magnetic field enough to influence the path of tornadoes?For instance,mobile home parks?

Who knows what else they have discovered based on Tesla's secret documents?

https://vlf.stanford.edu/research_topic_inlin/experiments-haarp-ionospheric-heater/

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#34
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/09/2021 9:00 AM

One is going to get a lot of ‘Negative Nancy’s’ from fence sitters with their academic ‘opinions’.

One thing I learned from personal life experience… when working on a new development project, there are times the value isn’t gain from the project itself, but from the ancillary jig/fixtures/processes that were developed for that project.

And that’s the problem with intellectuals… they look at thinks with such narrow vision that they miss the big picture, because they don’t know, what they don’t know. And refuse to acknowledge it.

But it does identifying themselves between fence sitters and doers.

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#15

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/07/2021 9:32 PM

Tesla was a genius in many ways, but in just as many other ways he was a fruitcake. I suspect this is one of the fruitcake notions.

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#20
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 8:58 AM

That term fruitcake maybe,… he was diffidently had antics out of the norm

He was a germaphobe as well as an infatuation with a pigeon /pigeons

Even though, he was always welcome in the public, and invited to dinners, at least in his early life.

I think his antics were developed from living a solitude life.

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#35
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/09/2021 3:56 PM

Tesla was a genius in many ways, but in just as many other ways he was a fruitcake. I suspect this is one of the fruitcake notions.

I think of the brain as an idea machine with the conscious mind having a filter to remove the bad ideas. The filter is tuned by experience and the best knowledge at the time. (I once worked with a guy with lots of ideas, but with the filter wide open.)

Mr. Tesla had a very prolific mind and a lot of good ideas got through the filter along with a few that in retrospect were not as good from our viewpoint today. (20-20 hindsight).

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#36
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/09/2021 5:24 PM

With tongue in cheek, think of the brain as a file cabinet,… with it filled and you want to file more stuff, something needs to be purged. Tesla may have purged some critical social skills.

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#38
In reply to #36

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/10/2021 3:42 PM

I think the brain is like a receiver of knowledge,and people are tuned to a single channel.Sometimes it will get knocked off the channel to another channel,usually after head trauma or coma.

An example of this is the man who could play the piano expertly after suffering a head injury,and he never had an interest in music before.And a woman who awoke from a coma and could no longer speak her native language,and had never spoken or learned the new language before.

There are many such instances of this.

The Buddha's claim that when you are born,you know everything,but when you begin to talk,you forget it all and have to learn it all over again.

Actually,you are remembering.

Just what is the 90% of the brain that is not used doing?

Nature is not wasteful, so it serves a purpose.

Perhaps there are many channels stored there.

What if we could "change channels" at will?

Jus' thinkin'.

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/10/2021 10:51 PM

Yep, The brain is still a mystery.

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#16

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 12:24 AM
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#17
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 1:24 AM

Good grief. See post 15.

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#21
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 9:03 AM

There were a lot of Leonardo Devinci that never got built or took time and technology to catch up to get built.

Would you call DeVinci a fruitcake too.

I think both Devinci and Tesla is on a level above the ignorance.

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#23
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 10:15 AM

They're not fruitcakes, but there seems to be a "cost" - an offset for such genius. Tesla at least had OCD (a fixation with the number 3, an abnormal attraction to pigeons, and couldn't stand seeing a woman wearing earrings) and was possibly paranoid schizophrenic. Some specialists think both Turing and Einstein had Asperger's or mild autism. And then there's Hawking. I can't think of someone with that level of genius who didn't also have some sort of malady.

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#24
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 10:28 AM

I agree.

The point with people using the term fruitcake. Devinci as an example, times were different no one knows what type of person he was. And in his time, if one would put a derogory label on him, you’d either get burned at the stake as a heretic, or lose your head for insulting the kings military advisor.

as far as Aspergers, specialist now believe you Newton had it. And as far as Turin, that’s somewhat different, Turin circum to social pressures that were the norm at the time.

So as far as OCD… as I said earlier, there are quirks. And when one one starts labeling people only because it’s out of the social norms is rather ignorant because they don’t know, what they don’t know.

those people, with these ‘quirks’ I guess aka ‘fruitcakes’, had a huge impact on the world… and it’s hard to believe that they are fruitcakes.

l’ve always believed that people with abnormal high level of intelligence, lack other skills-set such as social skills.

then again, there are some people that may have just blown a head gasket to have those quirks.

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#37
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/10/2021 12:21 PM

Alchemy(mercury vapours etc) may have contributed to Newton being 'odd', though in general it seems many 'geniuses' sleep very liitle. Before anybody tries, I sleep little and it doesn't work the opposite way.

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#39
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/10/2021 10:50 PM

Yes, That’s possible could be a reason alchemy, but unless they test it, one can speculate,

as far as trying to make it work the opposite way for lack of sleep… maybe you’re not trying hard enough.

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#27
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 2:29 PM

There's no such person as Devinci [sic]; he's da Vinci. (If at the beginning of a sentence, it would be Da Vinci.)

As to your question, of course not. First, I don't know if da Vinci had many, or even any, idiosyncrasies. Second, your train of logic is backwards. I wouldn't call someone a "fruitcake" on account of unproduced inventions. Other way around, maybe, if the description fits.

Furthermore, I did say that Tesla was a genius in some ways. But he was flat-out bonkers in other ways. I am not interested in politically correct objections to saying so.

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#28
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Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 2:33 PM

There's no such person as Devinci [sic]; he's da Vinci. (If at the beginning of a sentence, it would be Da Vinci.)

As to your question, of course not. First, I don't know if da Vinci had many, or even any, idiosyncrasies. Second, your train of logic is backwards. I wouldn't call someone a "fruitcake" on account of unproduced inventions. Other way around, maybe, if the description fits.

Furthermore, I did say that Tesla was a genius in some ways. But he was flat-out bonkers in other ways. I am not interested in politically correct objections to saying so.

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#18

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 1:39 AM

If there were a massive amount of energy in the ionosphere that hasn't been tapped yet, then the ionosphere temperature should be millions of degrees by now. Guess what, Buferd, it ain't. This whole idea is baloney. But then consider the source.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 6:10 AM

The energy in the ionosphere is limited by the strength of the Earth's magnetic field, and the strength of the solar emissions..If energy is extracted,it will seek equilibrium.

Consider the ionosphere as similar to the secondary of a transformer and it is easier to visualize.

An increase in the secondary current results in an increase in the primary current.

Likewise,and increase in the primary voltage (from the sun) results in an increase in the secondary voltage,for instance,the Northern and Southern lights.

I have always considered the source and allowed for ignorance in my dealings with everyone,which makes me very hard to offend.

Only one thing makes me really mad,and only one person has ever done that.

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#26

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/08/2021 12:44 PM

A lot of mental problems are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain,such as serotonin.And lithium.

I believe that eventually,talking to a shrink will be replaced by the right medication,personally tailored to each individual.

I asked a friend of mine,who is a psychiatrist,what he was writing down while the person on the couch was talking.

He said I really did not want to know.

I said I did,and he said,"OK,here goes:

House payment,car payment,alimony,boat payment,club fees,etc."

He said a good dog was as good as any shrink.

A person knows what their problems are,they just want someone non-judgemental to talk to in confidence.

I like dogs better than people as a rule.

They are better beings than human beings;there are a few exceptions in my book,but not many.

Got problems?Get a dog.

Labs and Golden retrievers are good,they will look you in the eye while you talk to them.

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#31
In reply to #26

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/09/2021 5:34 AM

Dogs that look you in the eye and tilt their heads slightly to one side are best.

My mini-schnauzer does that - unfortunately I can't work out if he is thinking "what you are saying is really interesting" or "I think you are a fruitcake, but I'm going to act like what you are saying is really interesting".

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Energy from Ionosphere

07/09/2021 6:36 AM

He is trying to tell if you are on the level or just shi*ing him.

Comparable to the human expression:" Really!You gotta be shi**ing me!"

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