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The Energy of a Bullet

12/12/2022 2:20 PM

Hello all, maybe someone here might know of this. We are told that the energy of a bullet is the mass times the velocity. What happens to the spin momentum, how is that accounted for? Some don't spin much, other bullets have extreme spin. Extreme to me anyhow.

Is the angular momentum ignored?

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#1

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/12/2022 4:01 PM

..."This rotation can be quantified by using the equation L=I*W, which means the angular momentum vector acting on the bullet is the product of its moment of inertia and the angular velocity of the bullet. We can decompress this formula by substituting I and W for their respective values on the right, and subsequently come up with the formula L=r*m*v. Angular momentum equals radius times mass times velocity."...

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/webproj/211_fall_2020/Ethan_Hoover/rifling-and-ballistics.html

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/06/calculating-bullet-rpm-spin-rates-and-stability/

It seems part of the energy generated by the explosion is relegated to spin velocity, and muzzle velocity is reduced but the spin adds mass, so the mass/velocity equation holds true...

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#2

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/12/2022 6:42 PM

OK, we need to distinguish between momentum and energy. Momentum is mass x velocity, whereas kinetic energy is 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. I think you are more interested in energy, as it determines how much destruction the bullet does to the target.

The inside of the barrel has spiral grooves called rifling that spin the bullet as it passes out of the gun. Typical spirals might complete a 360-degree rotation in 8 inches.

Is the angular momentum ignored?

A spinning bullet has rotational momentum and rotational kinetic energy. We can compare the rotational kinetic energy of a bullet with the linear kinetic energy. Dimensions are in inches and velocity in inches/sec.

M=1; Mass of bullet. (It will cancel out).

R=0.11; Radius of .22 bullet in inches.

V=1000*12; Velocity 1000 ft/sec or 12000 in/sec

rif=2*pi/8; Rifling pitch, 1 rev/8 inches

ω=rif*V; Angular velocity (spin) radians/sec

KE=0.5*M*V2; Kinetic energy from speed of bullet

I=0.5*M*R2; Moment of inertia of bullet

RE=0.5*I*ω2; Rotational energy of bullet

ratio = RE/KE; Ratio of Rotational energy to Kinetic energy

ratio = 3.7319e-03

If the calculations are correct, it looks like rotational energy can be ignored, at least for small arms.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/14/2022 6:08 PM

The rotational speed of the bullet depends on the length of the barrel also.

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#6
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/18/2022 10:52 AM

OKAY,calculate this:A barrel has a 1 in 8 twist,that is every 8 inches it rotates once.

The muzzle velocity is 4000 Feet Per Second,the barrel length is 24 inches.

How fast is the bullet rotating when it exits the barrel?

How much energy if the bullet weighs 60grams?

The heavier the round the more twist is required to maintain stability.

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#7
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/19/2022 7:08 AM

MV X 720/Twist Rate = RPM

MV=4000x720/8=360,000 rpm

8-Twist RPM = 2800 x (12/8) x 60 = 252,000 RPM

MV = 3200 FPS
9-Twist RPM = 3200 x (12/9) x 60 = 256,000 RPM
etc,etc.

Okay,we have the rpm,now calculate the energy of the rotating mass,at the muzzle, if the bullet is .556"Diameter and weight is 60 grams.

Show kinetic and potential energy.

link:

https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/calculating-bullet-rpm-spin-rates-stability/

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 8:46 AM

I believe the projectile weight is in grains, not grams. Typically a 5.56 bullet weighs 60 GRAINS.

A 60 gram bullet (projectile) would weigh 925.94150 grains -- A pretty large round that I certainly wouldn't want to hit me -- spinning or not.

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#14
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 9:07 AM

You are right! My bad.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I stand corrected...(or sitting in this case).

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#10
In reply to #2

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 6:29 AM

Intuitively it makes sense that the rotational energy is small compared to the linear energy, likewise for the angular and linear momentums, because in firing any given load in any weapon, there is a linear kick, but not torsional kick. At least not in anything that I've fired.

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 11:05 AM

The muzzle does tend to kick up however.Why up,and not any other direction?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 11:14 AM

I think that it comes down to the fact that the axis of the barrel of the gun does not pass through the center of mass of the gun. In a conventional upright firing position, in any gun I've seen, the axis of the barrel passes above the center of mass. So upon firing, a torque is created that rotates the gun, and raising the end of the barrel upwardly.

Maybe I'll go on YouTube and look for some Dirty Harry videos that demonstrate the principle. Do you feel lucky?

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#19
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/21/2022 6:35 AM

GA

The reaction is also above the "average" point of contact with the shoulder.

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#3

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/13/2022 2:56 PM

Potential or Kinetic?

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#4

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/13/2022 4:22 PM

Thanks guys, I appreciate the response. I had wondered for a long time. I chocked it up to an increase in inertia, and not noticed because we use static weight for calculations. And that meant little effect, which I doubted. I hadn't considered the K V drop. And the m to V ratio. Fit's perfectly.

But I was surprised at the angular to linear ratio. Much smaller than I assumed. It's there, but means little.

Thanks you all.

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#8

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/19/2022 11:08 PM

Assuming that the slug - of mass m, exits the rifle muzzle with forward (linear) velocity v, whilst spinning with angular velocity ω, and moment of inertia I about its axis of rotation...

Then KEtotal = KElinear + KErotational = ½mv2 + ½Iω2

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#9

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/19/2022 11:12 PM

This is a very interesting question. I've never calculated the RPMs of a bullet, and I'm very surprised at how fast it is.

At first glance, it would seem to me that the total energy of the bullet would be the same regardless of the rotational speed. This is because all of the energy comes from burning the same amount of powder.

This question reminds me of a couple of things I learned in flying:

While studying the flight manual of a Beechcraft KingAir, I was surprised to learn that two sizes of wheels were offered on this airplane and the difference in polar moment of inertia was enough that the takeoff distance charts were different for each wheel size. The larger diameter wheels required hundreds of feet more runway for takeoff, less runway for landing.

Another thing that I realized was just how far an airplane travels in one rotation of it's propeller. I participated in a balloon popping contest, in which a helium balloon is launched and contestants try to pop it with the airplane propeller. I remember how the propeller missed the balloon yet it hit the windshield. We were doing a little over 200 MPH and the RPM was about 2500. At this speed, we were moving forward about 7 feet per revolution of the prop. No wonder the prop missed the balloon!

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#11
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 8:30 AM

You would also be surprised at how many times a drag racer engine turnover in a 1/4 mile.

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#23
In reply to #11

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/21/2022 9:13 PM

Actually, I wouldn't. I've calculated it before. I worked for a company that was approached about providing a system to monitor and record race car engine parameters in real time. We ended up not doing it, but it was a interesting concept.

In the dragster, a mis-fire causes the engine to blow up because there is so much liquid fuel in the cylinder that it hydrolocks. The fuel hasn't burned and turned into a gas.

Along the same lines, one of the Indy race teams was interested in using the same technology to change parameters on their car during the race. They wanted to be able to change suspension tuning, etc. on the fly. Their driver had a fit! He didn't like the idea of driving a car at 200+ MPH and having it handle differently each lap. Can't say I blame him!

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#27
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/22/2022 8:19 AM

WWII planes shot their machine guns through the props.

Modern fighter jets have to be careful not to be hit by their own bullets!

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#12
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 8:42 AM
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#26
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/22/2022 8:14 AM

OOPS! Posted in error..deleted.

This page deliberately left blank.

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#17

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 2:48 PM

A train is moving north at 100 ft/sec. There is a wall parallel to the track at 100 ft east of track. We fire a bullet due east from train, at 100 ft/sec. How far does the bullet travel in 1 sec?

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#20
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/21/2022 6:50 AM

Assuming that the shooter is not "compensating" for the movement of the train:

141.4 feet

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/21/2022 12:46 PM

Also ignoring gravity effects,which adds another curve to the calculations.The bullet also travels Downward at 32fps/ps as well a North at 100fps and East at 100 fps.

Needs to be a tall wall if he intends to hit it unless the rifle is 32 feet above the ground.

Depending on how precise you want to measure it,there is also the Coriolis effect of the Earth's rotation and the latitude and angle of the rifle barrel in reference to the ground.

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#25
In reply to #22

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/22/2022 8:07 AM

AW Shoot! I forgot to include the effects of the orbital velocity of the Earth around the sun,the orbital velocity of the solar system's rotation around the galaxy,and the galaxy's rotation in the local group,the local groups motion toward the

Great Attractor,and a few other variables too minor to mention.

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#18

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/20/2022 5:05 PM

At what angle is the spin axis of the bullet, when the bullet hits the wall?

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#21
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Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/21/2022 6:57 AM

Ignoring air resistance.

At right angles to the wall.

Imagine that the shooter shoots from the far side of the carriage, and, consider the state of the bullet before it exits the train. Why should anything change when it passes through the window (assuming it's open and ignoring air resistance).

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#24

Re: The Energy of a Bullet

12/21/2022 9:41 PM

Let's ignore the air resistance, gravity and Coriolis Effect. So actuality, the bullet has a 140 ft/sec muzzles velocity. And the bullet slides. This would produce a larger impact area. And the offset in spin, might cause the bullet to arc up or down, after impact, depending on the twist direction. Sounds much more damaging.

Let's replace the train with a counterclockwise rotating wheel, holding the gun. The muzzle has an angular V of 100 ft/sec. The barrel points due E when bullet leaves barrel.(at 100 ft/sec)

The train added 2 linear velocities. The wheel added an angular V to a linear V.

Where does the bullet go? And it's speed and spin alignment?

Would there be any difference at all? Would it slide as before? Or would it be normal to the wall?

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