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How Big is a Photon?

04/27/2023 10:38 AM

This video explains how light can be both a particle and a wave. I found it interesting, so I thought I would pass it on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDtAh9IwG-I&pp=ygUTaG93IGJpZyBpcyBhIHBob3Rvbg%3D%3D

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#1

Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/27/2023 12:46 PM

I think photon is a bogus term, generated by an attempt to explain something we don't understand....I don't think a photon has size, only different qualities...Just look at all the different terms used to measure light...

It's like trying measure a shower of water where the water has 10 different levels of wetness, from 0 wetness to extreme wetness...you measure a spot over time for wetness and get an average, but in real time it tells you nothing...

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#2
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/27/2023 2:01 PM

I think the takeaway from this video is that the EM field energy is continuous. It can be any value. But to measure it, it has to interact with matter by a quantum amount that is proportional to frequency.

If the laser has been attenuated to the point where it takes a second for a quantum of energy to pass by, the energy somehow accumulates until it is absorbed by a detector atom where the intensity of the field is high.

You don't see an interference pattern of a single "photon" detection. The interference pattern is a record of many detections, each occurring independently.

I don't know whether or not there is a flaw in this reasoning. I'm curious whether it can be used to explain quantum puzzles like the delayed-choice quantum eraser experiment.

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#3
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/27/2023 10:19 PM

I look at it like light is radiation like heat, now you can measure heat by BTU's, but you wouldn't ask how big is a BTU...you might ask though how many BTU's are in this space of 1 m3 , but you are measuring the effect of the radiation...Light is hard enough to describe in detail, why add to the confusion with made up terms and imagined qualities...

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#10
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 7:01 AM

Actually you can use same measurements for shower water, if you replace "light" with "water".

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#15
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

08/17/2023 4:07 AM

You missed out Nits, One nit is equal to one candela (one candlepower) per square meter (1cd/m2)

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#4

Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 12:09 AM

I disagree with everybody. I think a photon has a definite size, shape, form and motion. I don't use the term photon as science does. For it only describes certain properties of the propagation, not the whole. And even the property that it describes is 1/2 off. I use the term photon as describing one singular emission. No matter the frequency.

The qualities listed are the qualities of any flux, just substitute the term luminous with amplitude. All fluxes have properties that are not present with a singular emission. It's like chocolate and vanilla.

A photon is an expanding electrical disturbance. It's an expanding shell. The shell is 1/2 period in duration. Or thickness if you will. If it's a continuous singular emission, like radio, there will be a 1/2 period of dead time a no disturbance between shells.

EM emission is a strobe with a 50% duty cycle of duration. The "wave frequency" of the emission......only occurs at detection and interaction with mass. There is no "wave" in flight. This means that an rf link is only in use, half the time. This means that with the proper timing, an rf link could carry twice the power and twice the information.

If you use omnipresent time and length....and use a zero duration for emission....and use 1/2 period for propagation with 50% DC....and use 1 full period for detection(alternating frequency).....THEN ALL of the measurements of changes in phase and changes in frequency that we measure with relative velocity............fit perfectly.

But of course everyone disagrees with this.

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#5

Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 12:40 AM

I really found the video interesting, but I'm not convinced that the experiment says much about the size of a photon.

Assuming that a beam of light is made up of discrete photons, then no matter how much we attenuate the beam, it is still made up of discrete photons. If photons are indeed discrete, then a beam splitter does not split any photon into two pieces, but rather sends some fraction of the photons off to the side, allows another fraction of the of the photons to pass on through straight ahead, and probably absorbs a third (hopefully small) fraction of the initial photons.

Since the now split beams travel different distances, but at the same speed, before striking the target, they will do so in different amounts of time. Thus any pair of photons causing the interference pattern must have been emitted at different times, with the photon traveling the longer distance having been emitted well before the photon that followed a straight path.

I do NOT believe this experiment shows that a single photon can interfere with itself.

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#6
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 12:53 AM

Well things can be true and not true at the same time, that is a paradox of logic....

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#11
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 11:34 AM

I really found the video interesting, but I'm not convinced that the experiment says much about the size of a photon.

I would say the size of a photon, or how close two photons have to be to show interference, depends on the coherency of the source (temporal and spatial).

Temporal coherency (purity of sine wave) determines the length of the photon, and spatial coherency (degree of collimation) determines the width.

For example, for a good coherent source like a single mode HeNe laser with a coherence length of 100 meters would have a photon length of 100 meters. (Most sources have a much shorter coherency length, e.g., a diode laser might only be coherent for about a millimeter.) The coherency length is the difference in path length in an interferometer that there will be interference.

The mirrors inside a laser cause the light to be highly collimated resulting in a narrow beam with low divergence when it exits the laser. Light from a distant star, or even more so, a distant quasar would be extremely collimated. Interference could be detected from two detectors far apart.

So if the laser light in the experiment is highly attenuated so that only a single photon is in the interferometer at any time, the photon can be up to 100 meters long due to the temporal coherency of the HeNe laser and can interfere with itself inside the interferometer.

When it is detected, the photon makes a single dot on the detector screen. The position of this dot is controlled by the self interference, a fact that is not obvious until multiple photons have been detected and the pattern is evident.

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#7

Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 1:06 AM

A 10 MHz photon starts out a lot larger than a light photon. But it has a larger duration and is easier to analyze. Even though it requires more room and area for measurement. The only difference between the two is the start size and the shell thickness(duration). If you inject 1/2 period of excitation into feedpoint, you will get one photon emitted. Try it.

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#8

Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 1:52 AM

One needs to be very careful with math........and mathematicians. You can see it in all mathematicians. Unlike the words of the spoken and written language, the language of math......always has the same context and intonation. Because numbers have and maintain a constant relationship with one another. This unifies all that have been mathefied. Yes I said mathefied. Or quantized with math. And everything has been. They quantize you in digital storage. You are a math set. Everything you is, is in the set. And You can be related to every other set.

Therefore, when you use math language to describe or quantify an object, or a property, or a principle or concept...............That description............will be related to every other math description.....simple because of the math. Mathematicians have covertly given this relationship long ago.......and now they call it a fundamental discovery. And having a deep causation bearing and meaning of physicality.......hell......it might even be the meaning of the universe. The cause and meaning of existence. It's so silly.

I tried to watch the video, but like must presentations of educated men, they mis-term the concept. A set is not a collection of objects.....it's just a list. I didn't watch anymore. We don't speak the same language. Modern explanations of contradictions no longer interest me. The explanation is usually just as silly as the contradiction. I'm sure this one is too.

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#9

Re: How Big is a Photon?

04/28/2023 4:03 AM

The universe does not carry an obligation for the observer to understand it.

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#12

Re: How Big is a Photon?

05/03/2023 4:20 PM
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#13
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

05/05/2023 5:07 PM

The results are impressive, but I disagree with the narrative. All that is being done is, sending an un-distorted copy along with the distorted photon copy. Add them and presto. The un-distorted copy is also a negative of the original distorted photon. This greatly improves contrast and clarity. Every photon is corrected. Entangled photons are out of phase.

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#14
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Re: How Big is a Photon?

05/06/2023 8:42 AM

It get's weirder than that. You can detect an object with zero photons, sometimes...

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#16

Re: How Big is a Photon?

08/18/2023 6:31 AM

Without reading in detail all the erudite contributions, I would say to an order of magnitude, it's the same as the wavelength of the radiation.

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#17

Re: How Big is a Photon?

08/18/2023 11:08 AM

The size is always increasing. The detected light from a moving emitter will be space width modulated. The detected light with a moving detector will be frequency modulated. Very different than sound.

Space isn't expanding, it's just being modulated. A space shift. But we call it a red shift.

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