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Tesla Fires

11/13/2023 7:32 AM

in view of the recent Tesla fires and the difficulty putting them out,I suggest a liquid form of Starlite,the insulation that can resist almost any heat.Spray it on the fire as a coating,or perhaps a blanket coated with Starlite.

I have seen the blankets being marketed for such use,but this is not the same.

This would not extinguish the fire because it makes its own oxygen when burning,but it would contain it till it exhausted itself.

Starlite could also be used as a layer between and around the Lithium batteries and when shipping them,also as insulation on aircraft.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Starlite&t=newext&atb=v313-1&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D10C5oQiUU_U

"Starlite Explained" video

Impressive: Start at 4:00 with the raw egg.

(The exact formula had never been released because the inventor was very paranoid about the secret being revealed when a patent is filed,and rightly so.)

(However there has been much research in on this material,and very good replicas have been made under various brands.)

Wonder how this stuff would perform against Thermite?(2400C)

See this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtm_xOtw_r0

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#1

Re: Tesla Fires

11/13/2023 12:21 PM

The stuff they made the space shuttle tiles out of is pretty good, but I don't know about the cost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_thermal_protection_system#:~:text=Much%20of%20the%20shuttle%20was,it%20was%20still%20red%20hot.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Tesla Fires

11/13/2023 3:37 PM

This stuff is very cheap to make,with off the self material:corn starch,baking powder and PVA glue.The exact ratios are not know,or not revealed since the inventor died.

A carbon source,a substance that will expand when heated and something to hold i tall together.There are many copy-cats on the market,but I don't know if they are as good as the original.Some may even be better since they know the principle of operation

This guy discovered it by a serendipitous accident.He was trying to make a cheap hair gel.(He was a hairdresser). When he threw it away in his trash burn barrel,it did not burn,so he experimented with it to see what it would take to burn it....the rest is history,kinda like Vulcanized rubber was created when Mr Goodyear spilled sulphur on the rubber on his stove.

I am going to try in in a home made LP forge.

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: Tesla Fires

11/14/2023 8:01 PM

For what it's worth...

"The American company Thermashield, LLC, which owns the Starlite formula, stated in a radio interview that Starlite is not made from household ingredients and there is no PVA glue, baking soda or baking powder in it.[3][16]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlite

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#3

Re: Tesla Fires

11/13/2023 4:08 PM

..."In order to meet the growing need for battery shipment safety, PACT (a US-based packaging and crating company) developed a patented technology called Thermo Shield fire suppressant wrap. This one-of-a-kind solution consists of a lightweight pleated material with a non-toxic moisture vapor application that ensures the safety of lithium-ion products in transport by suppressing the fire and shielding the surrounding environment. It is the first of its kind capable of containing a lithium battery fire within specified corrugated containers for shipments on land, sea, and air."...

https://www.pactthermoshield.com/

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#4

Re: Tesla Fires

11/14/2023 6:59 AM

Then you could always use Teslas as hearses and save the need to build crematoriums, seems like they would be fit for purpose.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Tesla Fires

11/14/2023 7:40 AM

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#7

Re: Tesla Fires

11/14/2023 11:37 PM

With all the problems lithium batteries have, wouldn't it be better in the long run to spend the effort on improving Gen IV, fast, nuclear reactors?

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Tesla Fires

12/01/2023 4:10 AM

I doubt that my little SUV or next e-bike would be nuclear powered anytime soon, as it might be a tad heavy per kWh I suspect. But for utility level - yeah, maybe, eventually. As long as they keep it small, simple, standardised, factory-built, modular, with efficient waste-handling processes, simple maintenance and low regulatory requirements. The end question for most customers remains: how secure is my supply mix, and what is my effective cost/kWh for said secure supply (saving the world is nice too but a whole different story for another day). That also implies that it must be built on-time, on-budget, on-quality - and big-build nuclear is infamous for not meeting time & cost budgets.

China is moving fast on sodium batteries for certain EV applications, as they solve a lot of issues despite slightly worse kg/kWh.

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#8

Re: Tesla Fires

11/28/2023 2:35 PM

I agree with Lehman57 on post 7, and gave him a GA.

There are products in final design/final testing that will solve this problem.

These batteries don't create their own oxygen during combustion (like magnesium) so removing the heat will put them out.

Water can't put out such a fire as the boiling point is too low to remove the heat, which is required for combustion.

I'm not giving away any trade secrets here, but aren't these clues are enticing?

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#9

Re: Tesla Fires

11/29/2023 5:17 PM

50 years ago, metal fires were quenched with graphite,used to extinguish cars with magnesium\aluminum engines and aircraft.It works by absorbing the heat of combustion. Some also had copper powder.That was a class D fire extinguisher.

Would these not work on lithium fire?

Some fire departments do not have these but should.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Tesla Fires

11/29/2023 6:22 PM

I have also wondered about using the Rockwood (Navy) nozzle with a long extension (to keep firefighters away from potential explosions) that is downcurved at the end to flood the battery with water.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Tesla Fires

11/29/2023 7:17 PM

The lithium battery fires are so hot they split the water into hydrogen and oxygen,and increase the flame intensity and increase the risk of explosion.

Water will cool down the area to prevent spreading but that's all it can do.

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#15
In reply to #11

Re: Tesla Fires

01/10/2024 11:58 PM

Then could we feed Starlite thru the applicator?

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Tesla Fires

12/01/2023 9:39 AM

We called those "personnel protectors" in the Navy. We couldn't run from a fire or wait for it to burn itself out on a ship. They sure do put out a protective fog. I don't know why Municipal fire departments don't use them.

The problem with water (other that HTRN observation) is that the boiling point is too low to effectively cool the battery's heat of combustion. Water flashing to steam from the heat, removes that heat from the ongoing combustion process, which will cause the process to cease, once enough heat has been removed.

In this case, a much higher boiling point liquid is needed, such that more heat, per unit volume of liquid applied per time unit, is removed from the process.

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: Tesla Fires

12/01/2023 4:48 PM

Class D fire extinguishers should never be used on LI battery fires.

A better option is a dry chemical extinguisher, although there is no ideal method, yet.

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#16

Re: Tesla Fires

01/11/2024 10:39 AM
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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Tesla Fires

01/11/2024 11:08 PM
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#17

Re: Tesla Fires

01/11/2024 1:30 PM

Why don't they build the battery with a fire-suppressant wrapping that is permanently attached?

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